Author Topic: dig or no dig  (Read 26340 times)

Mrs Ava

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #100 on: January 03, 2006, 00:35:37 »
Wow, finally made it to the end of this thread and thought maybe this dumb blonde should reply.........

I dug my 2 plots when I first took them on as they were smothered in weeds - nettles, couch, brambles - the usual suspects.  I dig where my spuds are going as I like to get in lots of organic matter in early spring - as some of you know, I have no access to mains water for watering in summer so have to provide my babies as much moisture retentitve matter as possible.  Other than that, I fork and incorporate compost over areas as crops are cleared, but 75% of my plots are always in use - year round.  Those on our site who use green manures never have waterlogging problems...those that rotavate rotavate rotavate always have puddles, stones and weeds!  So, I am an initial digger, then more of a forker to be honest.  ;D

One last little thing that kinda got my back up......parents that work, I work, okay, only when the kids are at school, but we have to make ends meet.  No, I don't understand well off families where the kids are farmed out to clubs and have nannies etc, but are you suggesting that those people aren't entitled to have kids?  Christ, the population of the planet would be a hell of a lot smaller.  And what a bore if we were all the same...don't you think?  I guess you could claim lots of benefits and not work and have lots of kids and be a stay at home mum or dad, but I don't.  There are mums at my sprogs school who have to work, HAVE to work and they send their kids to the local after school club, and these aren't well off families, these are families who struggle, who don't have holidays, not even in the UK, who shop at Aldi's and Lidls, they HAVE to work....sorry, I am ranting, and I am obviously not as clever as you guys with your long words and political views............but this really really did iritate me......

terrace max

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #101 on: January 03, 2006, 08:41:10 »
We live opposite our oldest's primary school. At 6:00 pm when we're sitting down to our meal, I can see all the little 'uns (some of them are still just babies really) coming out of the after school club. Being met by their parents - some of whom don't even make it for then. To me, it's like a scene from Stalin's Russia - children handed over to the state to look after...

I know most of the parents concerned. Nice people all of them. Most of them pretty affluent. Two of them are barristers and work every hour the Lord (Chancellor) sends. They are both school governors. (!)

I think these people have got the balance wrong - they have a choice and they have chosen their careers, two cars, two holidays etc. Normally I wouldn't care about their lifestyle choices - but the fact they are school governors and somehow in control of my children's education I find, at least, ironic.
 
If you don't have a choice and you have to work to keep the wolf from the door that's an entirely different matter.

I gave up work to look after my kids - not because I'm a saint. But because I could (just about) afford to when we moved to smaller house and grew a lot of our own food. (But not as much as you do EJ!). I couldn't really see an option.

I don't take any benefits myself, but resent the implication that parents that stay at home shouldn't. After all, they are providing the generations of the future who might just prop this crazy economy up...more so than any barrister ever will... For me, it's a question of true social worth.

I hope this clarifies what I meant EJ. I'm not going to say sorry and kiss your a*rse just because that would be easier. But I am sorry if I hacked you off... :-\ :)
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undercarriage plan

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #102 on: January 03, 2006, 09:44:42 »
Happy to join in the debate, but perhaps not in the dig bit? Blimey, can't believe I said that!! But very quickly! I stayed at home for 11 years, worked at night, went to college at night, I work now, but I'm the one that takes the kids to school and picks them up....and I have to agree with Max, if you need to to keep the wolves from the door, that is different completely, if you need to to afford your 10th holiday skiiing, then that's where my problem lies....I too have no wish to hack anyone off, but feel strongly too..anyway, must dash cos I'm off digging!  ;D

Oops forgot, I relocated to the watershed..... :-X
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 09:52:58 by undercarriage plan »

mark_h

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #103 on: January 03, 2006, 10:47:03 »
The soil on my plot is heavy clay, the allotment site it is on was only started up last year.     So due to this, I have done a fair bit of digging and incorperating organic material.    I can't do any more digging at the moment because I'm recovering from a shoulder operation.    Once fully fit, I will be doing more digging in of organic material.

Mark

Robert_Brenchley

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #104 on: January 03, 2006, 11:14:06 »
How deep do you get the spuds using that? I want to plant mine deeper since in that case there will be a bit more stem underground and hopefully a few more tubers as a result. I grow mine on the flat so there's no chance of burying stem later the way you do with earthing up.

Delilah

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #105 on: January 03, 2006, 11:25:03 »
What an interesting thread, a real can of worms, and some strong opinions too and Wardy now you've got a posh planter to hang in your posh shed OOOOOOOOOooooo get you!!!!! ;)

and before I forget..........except for a couple of raised beds ........I dig, I actually quite like digging ::)

Strange person that I am ;D
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the_snail

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #106 on: January 03, 2006, 11:41:53 »
Personally it is what you are used to. If you enjoy digging and you are able to do that then great. If you do not like doing the digging then no dig is the way to go. I can see the benifits of the no dig to the bugs and animals. It is all to do with personal opinion. If you get good crops from your allotment it does not really matter what methord you use. The key is to enjoy what you are doing and where you possibly can respect the bugs and wildlife that live on your site or plot.

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John_H

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #107 on: January 03, 2006, 12:12:46 »
I don’t dig because it feels like I’m spending time and effort on something which doesn’t seem to have that much impact except visually, and I also like to mix veg and wild flowers together in the raised beds to help attract the bugs and beasties. I reckon no-dig and plenty of compost also gives me a much bigger worm population and they do all the digging I need done.
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the_snail

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #108 on: January 03, 2006, 12:49:11 »
This might be an interesting article I found just on the internet as I was searching for some info on manure and spuds.

This link is about non digging and how it works :)
http://www.permaculture.co.uk/mag/Articles/Cardboard_Revolution.html

It is about non digging. (Well semi non dig)
http://www.permaculture.co.uk/mag/Articles/clover.html

The_Snail
« Last Edit: January 03, 2006, 12:52:13 by the_snail »
Be kind to slugs and snails!

amphibian

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #109 on: January 03, 2006, 14:09:58 »
From what I have read "no-dig" is the home garden adaptation of the commercial "no-till" method of farming. No-till was introduced in the 1950's as a fast, consequently lower cost, alternative to ploughing. It's entire existence as a method is due to economics, viewing soil as a commodity to be utilised, ignoring better husbandry techniques in the pursuit of an industralised approach to food production. While no form of cultivation is perfect no-till is certainly more detrimental to sustainable food production than ploughing. It is viewed by organic certifying bodies over here to be so detrimental to sustainable production, which is now the goal of certified organic protocols, that is a prohibited, as opposed to approved or restricted, practice. No-dig/no-till methods actually encourage leaching of nutrients and subsequent ground water contamination in all but semi-arid or desert climates. This is due to the long term establishment of vertical channels in the soil that allow the unchecked flow of water downwards, taking any dissolved compounds with it.
The addition of a winter mulch, probably disingenuously to some, will make the problem worse as it will absorb excessive rainfall, rather than permit surface run-off into discreet channels, and allow these large quantities of water to penetrate the entire soil profile in amounts sufficent to promote more leaching. A more throrough analysis of this can be found at:
  http://ewr.cee.vt.edu/environmental/teach/gwprimer/group06/impact.htm and at:
  http://ewr.cee.vt.edu/environmental/teach/gwprimer/group06/corn.htm
Presently no-till is widely used throughout the "bread-basket", the great plains, of the U.S. to produce corn, soybeans (both are mostly used for animal feeds) and wheat. It's speed allows solo farmers to cultivate far larger acreages than even a farmer with one or two employees can manage using more traditional cultivation techniques. As has been noted it is very dependent upon petro-chemical compounds and, as has also been noted, large quantities are used. It is indicative of the unsustainability of this practice that the quantities of these compounds used in U.S. agriculture doubled every ten years between 1945, coinciding approxomaitely with the widespread adaption of petro chemicals into farming, and 1995, when genetically modified plants were introduced (and resulted in a reduction in agro-chemical use). However, during these four decades, yields per acre remained essentially the same, even with the introduction of F1hybrids, with their increased vigour and yield, in the 1950's.

Well that settles it for me then, dig it is.

undercarriage plan

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #110 on: January 03, 2006, 14:35:45 »
Are you sure?

undercarriage plan

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #111 on: January 03, 2006, 16:15:13 »
Ooooo Wards!! It's so shiney!!!  ;D You're not going to get it dirty, are you.. Well, I did absolutely no diggin cos it peed down!! Spent the afternoon prowling round mum's house grrrring.....

MutantHobbit

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #112 on: January 03, 2006, 18:03:49 »
Having read the article in Kitchen Garden Magazine by Bob Flowerdew, and having followed the posts in this threads, I've decided to join the No Dig Crew.  ;D

The fact that I was out on the cold windblown allotment yesterday, freezing my butt off, clearing the parts of the lottie that the rotavaters don't reach, is merely a coincidence, and any rumours about me be a lazy bleep, are just scurrilous slander! ;)

P.S. Wardy, Ta for the tip about Kitchen Garden, I'm gonna change over when my subscription to GYO runs out!  Far too posh for me, now I've read KG...  :P
Sheldon, Birmingham.  I've put the pin on Google Earth where my shed is, in the allotments.  It's in an area with a satellite photo which is cool!  You can't miss it, there's a bl**dy great big Airport next door!

carloso

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #113 on: January 03, 2006, 20:10:54 »
ok ok im sold im going to dig one half and not the other !!! but im chosing carefully what i put where mind !!!



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Rose.mary

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #114 on: January 03, 2006, 20:48:10 »
I had a delivery of 15 bags of sand today to dig in my allotment to lighten the heavy soil. It has been a super day just like spring.
I have prepared what is to be my carrot plot by digging 3 bags of sand in and raking to a fine tilth. It is the second time I have dug this plot and was delighted to see the soil just break up so easy.
I will continue to dig, as I find it very satisfying.
Can't comment on the other subject on this thread about whether to look after your own kids or not as mine are fortunately grown up. ;D ;D
Rosemary

marjrie

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #115 on: January 03, 2006, 21:39:43 »
I love the look of that long no-bend planter Wardy, where did you get that?

As for digging, my husband actually likes doing the digging, so I will do the planting.

undercarriage plan

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #116 on: January 03, 2006, 21:50:14 »
Wardy!!!! Dibs is back!!  ;D ;D ;D!! Oh....i like digging...no I don't....ahem...I don't like digging..... ;D

dibberxxx

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #117 on: January 03, 2006, 22:02:44 »
i hate digging just cant do it , when i get my lottie oh says he wants nothing to do with it , all he will do is the digging thank godness

lorna

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #118 on: January 03, 2006, 22:14:44 »
Not keen on digging cos either my sciatica sets in or I dig up the bulbs ??? (Hi ya Dibber, you have been missed lots)

fbgrifter

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Re: dig or no dig
« Reply #119 on: January 08, 2006, 13:10:25 »
Where on earth have  been while all this was going on.  I must say I found all the debate fascinating and refreshing (my mother who is French always says that the British never debate or discuss politics, implying, i feel, that we have no opinions)!

That said, as a stay at home mum, I believe that I have learned a very important lesson concerning the work/no-work argument.  Happy parents makes for happy kids.  I can't wait to return to my career.  I think it continues to make me a more fully rounded individual that will be able to bring outside ideas and influences to my son, in turn helping him to be less sheltered and more rounded too.  However, if you are happy to stay at home then your children no doubt will be happier too.

And to relate back to the question in hand.  If you like to dig, then dig, if not, then don't, cos happy people make for happy plants too!
It'll be better next year

 

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