Topic: Now this is a good idea...

[paranoid mandroid]

click on the news story below, I believe that this is a much better idea than a carbon tax, because this rewards people who are more energy efficient.
A carbon tax just punishes energy efficient households for the greedy habits of everyone else.
Most poeple i know would have kittens if they thought they would have to watch their consumption habits.

An extension of this idea would make buying local produce rewarding and food which has had to be shipped from thousands of miles away cost 'carbon points'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4479226.stm

[Derekthefox]

Yes, I remember the energy rationing etc. Sitting in the living room by the glow of the coal fire and one candle. This scheme is worht considering, but I am still concerned about the the role of the big players, eg the US. Without their commitment, any efforts we make are trivial ...

Derekthefox  :-\

[paranoid mandroid]

i agree about having to get the US on board with schemes like this. apparently australians pollute as much per person its just that there are less people in their country.
it seems that 'high standard of living' translates into 'not very energy efficient'
i suppose it would be hard for everyone to change but its obviously going to be harder for folk who never think about recycling or energy saving.

only since i started the veg gardening have i started to think of the consequences of all that i do. maybe we should make an allotment/garden compulsory  :D

[Derek]

If the gas engineers decide to go ahead with their proposed strike we may well be reliving the 'winter of discontent' in the 70's.
Wasn't that during a Labour Government too?

Derek

[redimp]

If the gas engineers decide to go ahead with their proposed strike we may well be reliving the 'winter of discontent' in the 70's.
Wasn't that during a Labour Government too?

Derek

Even if it is then the real reason why there are fewer strikes during Tory years is because they curtail rights of the employee in favour of the employer so much that the employee loses their voice and becomes a minimum wage slave.

I enjoyed that programme where families had to cut down and the lady who was advising them gave them info about energy saving etc. 

Didn't you think there was a certain amount of cutting down she should have done as well?  ;)

[moonbells]

Hmm I get greener as I get older - though it helps when the greener products become available. Just got a batch of low energy bulbs as they're finally small enough to fit in my lampshades - about time!

House is now brighter than it was (replaced 60W bulbs with 100W equivalents) while using 1/3 to 1/5 of the energy.

moonbells

[wardy]

Me too Moonbells.  My husband said last night that he wouldn't be putting the dustbin out again as it's less than half full.  I felt dead proud.  It's been like this for about a year so just think if everyone's bin was the same .........  :)  My ultimate aim is to have nothing in it at all.  I'm chivvying like mad at the moment to get my council to recycle plastic milk cartons etc as we have to drive to Sainsburys to recycle them.  I don,t as I use mine as weights for my sheet mulch,  and measurers for plant food etc on the lotty.

Low energy light bulbs here too  :)

[terrace max]

One large windfarm avoids slightly fewer greenhouse gas emissions in a year than are created by ONE jumbo jet flying from Heathrow to Miami and back every day for one year.

When I thought about this fact I realised we can only prepare for the worst now.

[daveandtara]

blimey TM,  :o not a cheery bunny this morning then?
you're probably right of course!

maybe tho, mother earth is better at healing herself than we give credit for.

well, let's hope eh?
Tara xxx

[Derekthefox]

I have low energy lamps too. I am toying with the idea of making a little wind powered generator for the shed, to charge an old battery (there is a car battery centre next to the allotments). Even a battery with a failed cell would be ok, the output would just be 10 volts instead of 12 ...

Didn't someone have a link for a DIY wind generator ?

Derekthefox :D

[terrace max]

blimey TM,   not a cheery bunny this morning then?

 ;D Tara. Didn't mean to sound uncheerful. I just don't like to see nice people waste time doing futile stuff. Like paying pension contributions instead of buying solar panels. That sort of thing...

maybe tho, mother earth is better at healing herself than we give credit for.

Hope that doesn't involve extinguishing them pesky humans....

[wardy]

I suppose on the domestic scale doing a bit of futile stuff is better than nothing but I know what you mean TM.  It makes me mad that all the things we should do like recycling is still optional, and tardy local authorities can drag their heels as long as they like, and while they do so our landfills are backing up. The small beer mounts up though but while I;m here saving my tin cans etc the Chinese or Americans are churning out billions of tonnes of crap into the atmos or rivers etc so it's like **ssing in the wind. 
I can honestly say though I like recycling and it makes me feel better about me and how I live my life without causing problems for those who come after  ;D  I've even changed my old man and now instead of having wardrobes filled with clothes he gave them all to the charity shop to save ironing.  Now when he needs a shirt to go out he buys one back  :)  He also enjoys composting as much as I do and making something from nothing.  PS  I can't afford pension contributions at the moment.  I'm having a pension holiday a bit like a gap year  ;D

[terrace max]

In the big scheme of things recycling is irrelevant. Some of our carefully sorted waste just ends up dumped in the third world anyway by unscrupulous waste companies. The Chinese economy is indeed booming and burning lots of dirty energy trying to get to where we were forty years ago. Many Americans are fat, selfish so-and-so's who burn even more of the planet than we do...

BUT I reckon the lesson from these depressing facts is that most people don't have it in them to think of their children and save something of the planet for them. I know this because I used to drive big cars, take foreign holidays, buy my food from the supermarket etc. etc. regardless of the real interests of the next generation. The American Dream was a powerful fantasy of happiness that many people have bought into and we can't blame them - especially if we want(ed) it too.

I think we have to accept that sufficent numbers of people are not going to change sufficiently quickly to save our planet from radical change. People can't be forced to give up stuff because it would take some kind of police state just to wean people off their cars...!

I think composting, re-use of waste, and many other skills we use as part of this allotmenting lark are very good. Not because they'll save the world as we know it (too late), but they'll give us, and our children, a fighting chance of survival when it all goes t*ts up...
 
That thing about pension contributions - I used to be 'in' financial services. What a racket!
Many thousands paid into pensions and lost everything after the .com bubble burst. That was after a blip! How does our way of life survive the end of cheap oil?? Banks, maybe even governments, will fall. I think it's time to start planning for life 'off the grid' now while technologies are still artificially cheap.

[terrace max]

Bit depressed now. Anybody know any good jokes?

[undercarriage plan]

How do you say Chocolate in French?  Chocolate in French!! ;D ;D ;D Sorry...probably made you worse.... ::) ;)

[terrace max]

Emphasis was on 'good'... ;) :)

[Derekthefox]

Powerful stuff Terrace max but probably necessary. I have always tended towards a spartan existence, but have not expected others to follow suit. Unfortunately seeing the big picture can be depressing ... yes, more jokes required I think ...

Derekthefox :D

[undercarriage plan]

And only 54 more years to go...Oh I'm so excited!! ;D ;D ;D Have loads more...
And for what it's worth, I think that the earth will probably end up a right mess, global warming will occur, humans will end up being wiped out, I mean we really haven't been here that long anyway, a small blip in the time line and as already stated the earth will heal itself. So I have to say, though I try and do my little bit,   I do think that at the end of the day, in a billion years or so, hopefully, it'll have returned to huge rain forests and all the different ecosystems that were once about with no help from us arrogant humans...

[AikenDrum]

Did you know that wind tunnel "producers" get 4 times the National Grid price for the electricity they contribute, supposed to encourage something or another ? Never quite figured out what though.
As for wind tunnels, they have been around for hundreds of years, we call them politicians these days  ......    ;D

[wardy]

How can I follow that AD?

What do you call a nun with a washing machine on her head?