Topic: beans - fixed trenches v rotation?

[aquilegia]

What are the pros and cons of growing beans in fixed trenches as opposed to the usual rotation?

[Multiveg]

Well, I intend to dig a trench and fill it with strawy manure & kitchen waste (which is what I did this year). My mother noticed runner beans growing up where they were last year - the roots resprouted.
I guess fixed trenches ok until the plants start to not be as healthy as they should (could) be. Would be handy not to have to rebuild the climbing frame for them.

[supersprout]

I read a novel approach to crop rotation the other day. Grow crops in one place until you get a problem, then move them to a new area!  8) Can't say I'm tempted to try it out, cos I am enjoying the sudoko-like thrill of figuring out rotations ::)
My mum had a permanent runner bean trench and scaffold for more than 20 years, and I never remember any shortages ;D I think she alternated sides (for the trench relative to the scaffold) to give the ground a rest, but that's all.

[carloso]

well they say that they need not be moved to often
i also dug a trench for next yr for peas and beans and have first lined it with plastic (checked with level and length of woodthat stretches the whole length so reasonably flat) and then filled with somesoil and manure at about 4inchesfrom the bottom of the pit (which is about 8 to 12 inches deep) i stuck the fork through as flooding is not the desired effect but just to have hopefully a mini resevoir at the bottom as there a little thirsty in the summer and hopefully the roots will smell that waterandpromote a good heathy downward growth
well experiment awayyyyyyyyyyy

carl


speaking of which me seeds from T&M for me bolaotti came through this morning

[christine]

My mate has grown his runners in the same place for about 40 years, never has any problems and gives armfuls away every year.

[flowerlady]

I am sure  I have read somewhere that Bob Flowerdew actually lifted his runner bean plants and stored them like dahlias for the next year. :o

Has anyone ever tried this?

[Mrs Ava]

I dug a gorgeous trench way back when, filled it with lovely 'stuff', backfilled it and had more runners than we could manage last year...this year......a handful!  Blasted Vole family decided to move in and munch the plants at ground level as they grew!  Runner beans will be finding a new home next year and flowers will benefit from the bean treanch!

[Andy H]

Wondered about rotation but th old timers never have a problem and they always seem to be in the same place on all the plots. always the same way round which is he obvious sun position though., still... now we are down to two plots we can rotate between the two.

Talking about rotation? What about the 3 yrs grow 1 yr rest?

Anyone leave bits to recover every 4 yrs?

Guess we are all organic and putting natural stuff back in from compo and enhancing it with nitro enhanced grass eaten by the horses that give us the wonderful stuff!???

wondering if farmers rest fields now and then cos they cant be so thorough and organic as us part timers?

[Merry Tiller]

Fixed trench is best, runners have few or no serious soil-borne pests.

Some of the old boys at our site haven't moved them for decades and they grow the best runners I've seen

[moonbells]

I have moved to trench this year, simply because I got fed up of the beans being too heavy for bamboo supports and falling over; last year several plants snapped in the wind as they fell, so I decided enough was enough.

Filled a trench with a good 4-5" of manure and backfilled, then planted the beans round the edges of the manured bit.  Hammered posts (3" cross section, 7' tall) in at either end, and suspended a thick wire between them. Tied the bamboos to that wire. Was up there last night in quite breezy conditions and no problems.

I have had fantastic beans, despite not watering them as much as I've done in previous years.

The theory is that I can take the wire down over winter and then get at the plot for digging the new trench etc.  I suspect leaving it at nose level might surprise any oiks who try and walk across the plot!

moonbells

[tim]

The post business was what I found great. And I lean them at a good angle - single row of beans -  so that the beans hang straight.

Because they take up so much room & light, it makes sense to find the least obtrusive plot, consistent with the plants' well-being, & stick to it. They are useful both as a screen & as decoration.

[Columbus]

Hi all,

I put up a "permanent" bean fence with scaffold poles etc last year. This was in a sheltered space near my sheds and water barrels as I think the stilll air is liked by bees. I had a good harvest and a glut of beans but this year slugs also enjoyed that spot and ate my baby plants over and over again. I`m planning to build a new fence for beans somewhere more open and move my composting area into slug city.

Col

[redimp]

I am a dedicated rotator.  It gives me a four year rotation cycle and nitrogonises next years brassica beds.  I do not have enough room (1/2 lottie) to give a bed a rest every four/five years.

[Anne Robertson]

I've had a productive morning digging a trench, it's the first time I have tried this and I'm hoping it will be a success. Should I line it with plastic.
I've managed to scrounge 3 large timber posts that will go in soon to complete my bean trench. Got  60 metres of plastic coated wire for £1.50 from a car boot so will have enough for my beans and my new raspberry area. Oh I love bargains.  ;D

[Icyberjunkie]

I've also decided to try a permanent bed this year after losing all my beans late August (I think it was) during some storms.  Just about everyone on our allotments does have permanent beds - my only worry is letting the bindweed also find a permanent home!

Tim,  you meantion angled posts - is that a similar idea to having the suspended frame with beans hanging underneath.  If so can you tell me....

1.  What angle do you have them at
2.  How far apart do you put the supporting posts
3.  Do you need build the end like an A frame to stop the top settling down?

Thanks in advance of the response.

Iain

[Derekthefox]

I am a firm believer in the rotation system. I saw an interesting programme some time ago, when I used to watch television, about a south american farm that was struggling due to the cost of fertilisers. They introduce beans into a rotation, and within a few years the farm was running with no fertilisers at all, and making a profit. I cannot remember any other details.

Derekthefox :D

[undercarriage plan]

Flowerlady, I've not lifted and stored like Bob has, but this season, I'm experimenting with just removing top growth and mulching heavily. Am a curious,  kinda person!! Will let you know...
Lottie  ;D

[tim]

I take back a bit of what I said - later in the season, we had many longer & straighter beans on the other ( north) side this year!!

But it can't be worse than the usual 2 rows leaning together - that's about the angle we use. Otherwise you couldn't walk by.

My supports are 2 x 8' galvanised water pipes - about 35mm.

Or we did use 4 metal 'canes' as 'A' supports for a 24' row.

But commercially, surely, they still use the old method? Certainly around Evesham I've seen them. And the market beans are as good as you could wish. But what a price!!

I've done the 'dahlia' thing in the past, but last year I let them dry out. Failure.

[redimp]

Still using the rotation system but next year I will be using smaller arrangements of canes and will be keeping my beans seperate so will have seperate smaller cane arrangements - i.e. two lots of reds, one for fresh, one for drying, two lots of whites, same reasons, two lots of bortlottis, two lots of climbing frenchies, etc.  My big structure collapsed under the weight of the beans and plants this year.

[Icyberjunkie]

Thanks Tim.