Topic: who is organic.

[DolphinGarden]

3 years organic: 2005 vegan organic.

Welcome. It's very nice here unless you mention cats!

Hah hah, this made me laugh!  It's true though.

Can anyone answer Roy?

;D Do you like Fishing? ;D

I am seriously fed up, fed up I tell you with my Japanese wife with the naggady nag about me eating meat. I mean, come on. Since F+M disease, bse,vcjd et al I have reduced my red meat input by at least 99%. So I do like my chicken. I do.  And a bit of pork. But I mean to say, this from the country that hunts the whale for "research" purposes. Hmmm, I dunno. Live and let live (though not the animals we eat, I acknowledge my twofacedness!)

London, may i suggest a poll?

There was a poll recently. I will edit it in the link later

regards,

Ciaran
The edited bit
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/yabbse/index.php/topic,8167.0.html
In the Pests, Diseases and Disorders thread.

[philcooper]

Derris also has Qualified Acceptance from the HDRA.

Phil

[djbrenton]

I am what I conider organic. I will use Bordeaux if necessary, otherwise it's soft soap or rhubarb tea. I also use Cornish calcified seaweed even though calcified seaweed is now a no-no. The difference is that whilst calcified seaweed normally destroys habitat, the cornish one is harvested ahead of the planned dredging which would destroy habitat anyway. People have their own reasons for gardening 'organically', from the basic of not wanting herbicides, fungicides and pesticides in their food, right through to concern for the global environment. When i attend meetings of our local organic society, it seems almost competitive - " Oh I'm even more organic than that!" etc. My main concern is the food I eat, so my decisions aren't based on the future of the land snail in Paraguay but rather more parochially. I therefore am happy to use Roundup on our car park but not on my allotment.

[aquilegia]

almost organic.

I don't use any chemicals at all - use only organic plant feeds and hand weed and ignore most pests! I don't use peat. I collect the water from the tap that's cold when you're running the hot tap and use that on the garden and I have a waterbutt. That lasts until mid-spring, then I have to start using tap water (although I don't have a hose, so am very careful about how much I use!)

I try to get a balance with nature. I don't like killing things so left the wooly aphids on my apple tree and the black fly on my broadies. Ladybirds have eaten most of them now!

In fact since I started gardening (seriously three years ago, after about two or three years of pottering) I haven't used any chemicals. It's my philosophy that I live in balance with nature, so this extends beyond just the garden.

This year I've stopped using many harmful household products and everything is recycled or reused. And I don't have a car. Oh and I've been a veggie for 16 years. Next step - veganism. maybe.

[growmore]

I have found trying to be totally organic on a lotty is not possible ..
We cant tell neighbours each side of us how to garden as in sprays etc...
I need horse muck etc on my plots I cant tell If the horses have recently been wormed prior to me getting my muck or if they have had any antibiotics etc...
I tried an experiment last year with 2 rows of sprouts .Spraying one and hand picking bugs off the other.Despite living only about 20 yards off my lotties and visiting every day the row I had not sprayed was eaten and in a right mess.
I think its going a bit far not using tap water < I would have hardly anything growing at all this year without it.
 So I use roundup slug pellets and spray my brassicas once a season with bug clear ..
At least this way i usually have some sort of fresh veg and plenty of tatties and onions to see us through at least 9 months of the year..
The freezer sees to the other 3 months .
The alternative would be supermarket veggies and who knows how many times they have been sprayed and irradiated etc ..Despite how they look all uniform in size etc..
I ain't going to work 3 lotties and hope I gets some stuff on the  table.
I am having a fighting chance of getting some.
In principal and in theory total organic sounds ideal but I have found it is different in practice..
But each to his own and for those of you that  are trying it I hope you succeed...cheers Jim.
 

[ptennisnet]

Not really.  We are to organic horticulture what people eating fish and chicken are vegetarianism. 

Basically we use a bit of inorganic fertiliser (tomato feed / Growmore) and the odd slug pellet (they're not my choice!) but no herbicides, insecticides or fungicides.   Reluctantly we may try Derris next year as flea beetle seems to be everywhere.  Oh, and I've just remembered I sprayed with aspirin a couple of weeks ago...

[Mubgrub]

At the moment I haven't been using tap water because I don't have a hose- dont keep any tools or anything at the lottie because the shed I inheried has fallen over! 
Just use what's in the butts on the plot but I do water seedlings with tap water at home before they go out - what is the argument against tap water?  Is it to do with flouridation or heavy metal traces or something?  haven't come across this debate before.

[londonfarming]

what is the argument against tap water?  Is it to do with flouridation or heavy metal traces or something?  haven't come across this debate before.

its a moral issue for organic grower. we hope to have a debat on the subject,espesialy,on these time of drought.

[Moggle]

I have tried to be mostly organic. I've avoided peat composts, and pesticides. Have used nettle feed and have obtained some comfrey plants, but still bought some tomato feed for what is in pots/growbags at home. No herbicides, and up till today no pesticides, but gave in and brought some slug pellets today, cos all young seedlings keep getting munched  >:(. Will try to be more organised next year with the organic slug deterrents/killers, but it has been heartbreaking to have everything munched  so going for the easy option for now.

[Mubgrub]

its a moral issue for organic grower. we hope to have a debat on the subject,espesialy,on these time of drought.

So its more to do with water wastage and growing drought resistant plants?

[Mrs Ava]

Ooo, so the bordeaux and derris I use shouldn't make me feel as guilty as it does!  Hoorah  ;D 

[londonfarming]

its a moral issue for organic grower. we hope to have a debat on the subject,espesialy,on these time of drought.

So its more to do with water wastage and growing drought resistant plants?

yes. can you explain why?

[londonfarming]

Ooo, so the bordeaux and derris I use shouldn't make me feel as guilty as it does!  Hoorah  ;D 

if it allowed with the soil assoiciation, its good enought for us ,we choice the soil assiociation,because we thought was the most know organic group in uk.if you know of any other group let me know.im just interested in founding a base for small organic grower like us. We are far more "extreme" than the soil assiociation Living in london we had to make some compromise
in order to obtain an organic certificat. its a long story. tape water ,was one of them,and right to be.

[philcooper]

.....we choice the soil assiociation,because we thought was the most know organic group in uk......

LF,

The SA is effectively a trade organisation which provides UK certification for commercial growers, it has a few thousand members

The Henry Doubleday Research Association (started with the assistance of a grant from the SA) is the organisation for amateur growers (over 30,000) - it also does work with assisting growers around the world, mainly subsistance farmers.

It publishes a set of guidelines, as it is for amateurs, as opposed to rules and regulatiuons which are necessary as "Organic" has a legal meaning when applied to prodcue for sale.

The HDRA has loads of information on its website (lots more if you're a member) at www.hdra.org.uk It also has local groups (not all of which are full of "I'm more organic than you" members), several in London - clck on "Local Groups" near the top left hand corner of their home page.

Phil

[londonfarming]

.....we choice the soil assiociation,because we thought was the most know organic group in uk......

LF,

The SA is effectively a trade organisation which provides UK certification for commercial growers, it has a few thousand members

The Henry Doubleday Research Association (started with the assistance of a grant from the SA) is the organisation for amateur growers (over 30,000) - it also does work with assisting growers around the world, mainly subsistance farmers.

It publishes a set of guidelines, as it is for amateurs, as opposed to rules and regulatiuons which are necessary as "Organic" has a legal meaning when applied to prodcue for sale.

The HDRA has loads of information on its website (lots more if you're a member) at www.hdra.org.uk It also has local groups (not all of which are full of "I'm more organic than you" members), several in London - clck on "Local Groups" near the top left hand corner of their home page.

Phil

thank you, i choiced the soil assiociation because its seem to be well know from the public in general.i think a veg growth in london with an soil assiociation label,would go well.Ill have a look at your info thank you again

[londonfarming]

The HDRA has loads of information on its website (lots more if you're a member) at www.hdra.org.uk It also has local groups (not all of which are full of "I'm more organic than you" members), several in London - clck on "Local Groups" near the top left hand corner of their home page
i try no luck so far,
im myself doing some research,about growing extrem organic, that why im interested in grower who dont use tape water.

Phil

[Mubgrub]

yes. can you explain why?

Ummmmmm.....   is it about a totally natural way of growing food, working only with the natural resources availible?  Or a stand against the wasteful use of water?  I'm not sure, hence the questions, could you explain your position fully please? ;D  Also, to what extent do you think air pollution in London affect the quality and purity of the rain water?

[Icyberjunkie]

Soil Association are NOT the best choice I would say and even more so for a small grower.   The SA in my view are far more interested in politics and legalities than practicalities and encouraging organic growing.  As a result a lot of people myself included kicked them out for alternative accreditation.

Londonfarmer,  can I recommend that you try either Organic Farmers & Growers or the Organic Food Federation.  Both wold be very willing to help and advise you.

Iain

[londonfarming]

yes. can you explain why?

Ummmmmm.....   is it about a totally natural way of growing food, working only with the natural resources availible?  Or a stand against the wasteful use of water? 
 its both of them
 ;D  Also, to what extent do you think air pollution in London affect the quality and purity of the rain water?
we dont have the choice, we have to eat what we growth where we are.
 

[philcooper]

Soil Association are NOT the best choice I would say and even more so for a small grower.   ....
Iain

Although I am a member of the SA (and HDRA), I agree with you. The SA, as I said, is a trade association - so getting "their label" as you put it LF, is a non-trivial exercise which will cost lots of time and money and is only cost effective if you intend to make a living from your organic produce.

Phil