Topic: Focus Greenfly and Blackfly Killer Spray

[redimp]

I have a bottle of this stuff (was given to me).  It says it is based on natural fatty acids.  Does this mean it is organic or organic approved.  I do not want to use it if it isn't and the masses of Cabbage Aphid that are spoiling the cabbages I was so proud of, will get to live another day.

[Svea]

RC, i bought something similar from B&Q which IS approved by the HDRA. i dont know exactly what the ingredients are but fatty acids and soap spring to mind. it certainly feels soapy when i spray plants with it.

it does seem to take care of the mealy aphids on my cabbages, too - fingers crossed they will be ok as they looks a bit droopy on the weekend :(

[redimp]

Thaks - the one I have got feels soapy as well - I will give it a go now the rain has stopped and keep my fingers crossed that it does not blot my organic copybook (using any sort of spray is a compromise but I have lost cabbages to these berhugers (will always be in Kitty's debt for that one) before)

[portway farm]

Hi there without knowing the bottle e.g pictures list of ingreadiants etc it is dificult to say. Here at the farm we are totally organic if we need to spray we make our own or do companion planting. Remember that organic does not just mean what is in it is from organic produce (although to be accredited it has to be), but it is the whole process of manufacture - ethics and enviroment, is it from sustainable sources, are the wildlife taken into consideration, what is the enviromental impact, what is the packaging. I know that to many that definition could be seen to be taking things too far but it is the true def of organic. We do not even use shampoos or toothpastes etc with SLS in them. At then end of the day being organic can be taken to many levels and at the end of the day it is up to the individual to take it to the level to which they are comfortable with. Please do not think I am preaching just organic living is something we have taken to heart.

[redimp]

I too am experimenting with making my own sprays, and I am companion planting - the marigold failed to deter the aphids and the nasturtian has suffered at the hands of others.  I have some English Ivy leaf tea/soup and I have also watered my cabbages with a solution made from soaking rhubarb leaves for 24 hours.  I have also watered my plot with undiluted nettle soup as this is supposed to kill the weeds (I am still waiting)  What sprays do you make when necessary?  Any advice in this area would be very welcome.  :)

PS - do not think you are preaching (if you are that makes me very guilty)  My aim is to be as organic as possible and to use nothing that I cannot produce myself.  However, I am a first year lottier so am still learning (just very fast)

[Svea]

same principle here, RC. i dont take to the spray lightly, though i havent made as made home brews as you, either ;)

[tim]

The trouble with some fatty acid sprays is that they don't!  They tend to dribble out of the nozzle.

But they are the only ones that I will use. Other than bacillus for cabbage white caterpillars.

Wonder what the new Defenders Eradicoat promises?? Sounds interesting.

[portway farm]

We use simple soapy water of which there are plenty of organic and sls free soaps out there, or make your own soap (which is fun). Watered down milk in a spray bottle also works (bit smelly in the heat though), ordering in ladybirds and lacewings. Plant marigolds which attract hoverflys which eat bugs. Tansy and yarrow also attract ladybirds.

[Merry Tiller]

Homemade pesticides are illegal >:(

[portway farm]

To self use or sell? Also how can completely organic made soap which you mix with filtered water then spray be dangerous or illegal? Also why are their loads of sites which promote self sufficency not shut down then? Also as we are a farm we could, if wanted to use chemicals most people cannot legally use or get hold of.

Not having a go or shooting the messenger but technically that makes my potato spray illegal (when it is only made from potatos).

Also please show me the legal document supporting that.

Have been to pesticide.gov.uk and cannot find anything, spoke to a lawyer friend who said watered down milk in a plastic spray bottle is not illegal as it contains no chemicals.

IMO it is illegal to make pesticides that have chemicals in them. Organic growers use only natural produce, which in many cases is diluted and mushed up companion planting mixed with other plants in a spray bottle.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I think they are illegal, but it's a silly law. From what I remember it was brought in because of the number of people poisoning themselves with home-made nicotine preparations. Maybe banning nicotine insecticide would have made sense, but a blanket ban merely makes the law an ass, and brings it into disrepute. I'm going to go on rolling my own anyway.

[derbex]

I think it's a case of anything not approved is illegal -to be approved it has to be submitted to the EU for approval a costly process that only a manufacturer can afford to do -and not all of those.

Just because it grows doesn't mean it's safe -what's the active ingredient in the Rhubarb leaf tea, oxalic acid presumeably, a poison. How about the potato spray? The tubers (obviously) are ok to eat but aren't the 'fruits' poisonous? And nicotine as mentioned elsewhere -plant derived and very poisonous (I'm sure there's a PD James where one of the victims is polished off with nicotine).

Again, not a dig at anyone I use some 'old wives' remedies myself, bicarb or milk as a fungicide, soap or fatty acid sprays as insecticides, meths or white spirit for wooley aphid. Bicarb is at least a simple compound and milk has been tested on humans for millenia :) and (I think}) I know how they work -by making the plant surface alkaline and the mildews not thriving on that. Similarly soap spray -not so sure about the fatty acid sprays -must look them up.

Jeremy

[portway farm]

Again please do not feel I am digging at anyone and I agree not everything that grows is safe. But please let common sense prevail, I remember foot and mouth and the problems we had with DEFRA and the local council. I also feel the law is an ass. ::)

[Svea]

fatty acids = soap, i thought

[redimp]

If they want to prosecute me they can - I can shout very loudly from the dock - used to sit behind them when I was a practicing lawyer and the legal process hold no fear for me - it can be used as a vehicle to make a point when the law is an ass.  All I do is soak or ferment leaves and then use it on my plants - would they prefer me to go out and get some chemical muck that obliterates all signs of nature - I have a point to make and I will make it is they try.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Oxalic acid is certainly poisonous; during World War II there were cases of people dying though eating rhubarb leaves.On the other hand, it canbe handled safely with basic precautions, ie wash your hands after use, and don't put it in a bottle anyone might drink from! It's been used in continental Europe for year to control mites in beehives, and I'venever heard any report of anyone being poisoned. I have heard rumours of cases of poisoning by legal treatments in the States.

[derbex]

Just to be clear, I'm no fan of agro-chemicals either and don't use them, I'm not convinced that you can prove that they are safe -the best you can get is 'we haven't found anything yet, but we're not looking too hard'. I'm just not keen on using things just because they were used in the past, back when they put white lead on their faces, used mercury to stiffen hats and had pea-soupers.

I do use Oxalic acid -for getting rust stains off GRP and cleaning up teak :)

BTW -I think you're right Svea, smells very much like soft soap.

Jeremy

[portway farm]

I think we should put this thread creep to bed now ;D

And agree that we should all be sensible and let common sense and logic prevail. And that no matter what anyone tells you, do a little research first. :)

[derbex]

Seconded

 :-*

[redimp]

carried   :)