Deposits on allotments legal?

[artichoke]

Our council is imposing deposits of £25 to £50, depending on size of allotment. They propose to take the money and keep it indefinitely. When you quit your plot, they return the deposit IF your plot is clean and tidy.

At first sight this sounds quite a reasonable defence against being left with the expense of clearing messy plots for the next tenant, but on examination it could be crippling for many of us trying to grow vegetables and fruit in an economical way - especially as they are putting up the rents by 50% at the same time. Secondly, it is not at all clear how perfect the plot has to be for the deposit to be returned.....landlords take deposits from people renting their houses and flats, but they are notorious for refusing to return them on spurious grounds.

It is retrospective legislation in that those of us who have plots for years have to start paying the (one off) deposit this autumn. The most indignant are those who have put immense amounts of energy and money into creating wonderful and productive plots, as there are to be no exceptions.

Is it legal to demand these quite large sums of money (£100 for me, with two large plots) and keep them indefinitely?

Any thoughts or similar experiences?

[artichoke]

[artichoke]

A concession from the council later today: current plot holders need pay a deposit of only £10 per plot which is a great relief to me. But new arrivals must pay £25 - £50 per plot of which we have several lying vacant.

[lottie lou]

Mmmm, methinks a large deposit system could put potential plotholders off.

[artichoke]

Indeed.......and if these plots remain vacant, and over the years plot holders leave for one reason or another, and the plots remain empty because of the expensive rents plus large deposits........the council could conclude that there is no demand for allotments in our area and release the land for development.....

[lottie lou]

Great minds think alike

[sparrow]

Ask 'em what's being done with the deposit funds. Landlords have to put the money in separate accounts. The funds are not allowed to be touched except for reparations on quitting the premises.

And I'd ask 'em how a plot will be judged for returning the deposit in full and what rights of appeal there are, and how quickly a plot will be assessed and the money returned. There are strict timelines for landlords.

Am not sure on the legality grounds. I'd ask them what basis in law they have for charging a deposit for an allotment too.

We don't do it, we have key deposits only. It sounds odd to me.

[artichoke]

Good point about the deposits being safeguarded in a separate fund according to established law, Sparrow - thanks. I have already queried  the standards they plan to apply for returning the money, but you're right, there should be an appeal process and a time limit as well. At the moment we know very little beyond the fact that we are supposed to hand over the deposits with our rents later this month.

[lavenderlux]

Don't know if they would be legal but we have a deposit on gate keys;  it used to be five pounds per key but was then put up to ten pounds per key.  I'm the person responsible for letting plots on our site and having recently had to have a skip and lots of volunteers to clear a five rod plot which the tenant gave up in April this year, the plot was completely covered with a wild blackberry bush and masses of rubbish also left (including a full size bath!!), if there had been a deposit it would have helped off-set the cost of the skip. 

[JanetS]

Hi all.  New member, first post.

I am a committee member on a council run site, and they quietly introduced a deposit of £55 in 2014, which none of us knew about!  This only came about when my neighbour and I took on a 10 rod plot last year (I already have my own 2 rod plot).  Local members of an allotment association were appalled when they were told this at a recent meeting.  Our council officer had to bring it up at their recent meeting, but I don't think anyone thought to ask if the money was being safe guarded. 

We have plot holders who have been here donkeys years.  What hope is there of any prospective new tenants getting their money in 20-30-40 years time?

Oh, and the gate key deposit is now £25.  Rather than pay it, most tenants now prefer to just open the side gate which has a combo padlock.

[Tee Gee]

This is one of the subjects that come up every year and as I see it the problem lies it seems with each council producing " tongue in cheek" rules in order to extract more money from plot holders, simply because they see them as an easy target.

I wonder how many Councillors who make these demands have read the "Allotments Act" ? I would hazard a guess that it is not many of them, and those that have hope that the many plot holders have not either so that they can get away with it.

This is part of  the Wikipedia slant on the rules: 

The law was first fully codified in The Small Holdings and Allotment Act of 1908, then it was modified by The Allotments Act of 1922 and subsequent Allotments Acts up until 1950.

Under the acts a local government is required to maintain an adequate provision of land, usually a large allotment field which can then be subdivided into allotment gardens for individual residents at a low rent.

The rent is set at what a person may reasonably be expected to pay(1950)

In 1997 the average rent for a 10 rod (App. 300square yards or 240 square metres) plot was £22 a year.

Each plot cannot exceed 40 rods and must be used for the production of fruit or vegetables for consumption by the plot holder and their family (1922), the exact size and quality of the plots is not defined.

The key words are:The rent is set at what a person may reasonably be expected to pay

and there in my opinion lies the problem ....who decides this?

I know in my area the prices we pay are quite reasonable particularly when you compare them with other areas in the country.(£25/full plot) with a 50% discount for the over 65's. (In my case I get two for the price of one)

We have no hidden costs i.e. our rent covers the cost of the land, water, communal shed, security fences.

OK each year it goes up by a couple of percent which we have come to expect and find acceptable.

Until the current acts are revised I think (sadly) " the current state of play " will continue.

In my opinion the price of land, in particular development land, will be the key to what we have to pay and this should not be.

I know our local council have tried to up the prices by more than inflation over the past few years but have failed and that is in my opinion; because we have a few Councillors who are 'plot holders so I guess they have voted against large increases!'

So I think the answer is hound your councilor and MP preaching the greater good of what we do in terms keeping Britain green. 

But meantime: I would not hold your breath!


   

[johhnyco15]

we are a private site we own our own land we were thinking of a key deposit around a fiver decided against it for the time being however we did buy our own key cutting machine and get the blanks for around 20p each and one of our members cuts 100 keys at a time you get the first 2 free any more cost £1.50 each which has paid for the machine over the last 4 years over our two sites

[sparrow]

Hi all.  New member, first post.

I am a committee member on a council run site, and they quietly introduced a deposit of £55 in 2014, which none of us knew about!  This only came about when my neighbour and I took on a 10 rod plot last year (I already have my own 2 rod plot).  Local members of an allotment association were appalled when they were told this at a recent meeting.  Our council officer had to bring it up at their recent meeting, but I don't think anyone thought to ask if the money was being safe guarded. 

We have plot holders who have been here donkeys years.  What hope is there of any prospective new tenants getting their money in 20-30-40 years time?

Oh, and the gate key deposit is now £25.  Rather than pay it, most tenants now prefer to just open the side gate which has a combo padlock.

As per my post above, if there is a deposit scheme for plots this will need to be reflected in the tenancy agreement and you should be given clarification on how & when you get it back, plus where it will be kept.

If your site dislikes the idea, is there enough impetus for you to go fully self-managed with the site on lease from the Council?

[Digeroo]

Only just seen this thread.  We have a deposit.  And I reckon very few people leave their plots in a good state, and anyway three weeks after they leave it is not in a good state.

I do know one friend who had the plot next to mine had a somewhat different idea of a good state than me.  I endured several rants about the non return of the deposit, while actually agreeing secretly that he should not have got it.

Quite a few leave them in a terrible state.  Glass, metal, rubbish.  One has even left a huge hole, it will take some effort to fill it in.

I would estimate the cost of returning the plots to a decent state far outweighs the deposit.   

[Plot 18]

Do councils do anything to "return plots to a decent state" though? Ours doesn't so there is no way they could ask for a deposit.

In the rules & regs they do threaten charging for remedial work if you leave the plot in a mess    but I've never actually seen or heard of them doing anything!