Anyone have any experience of using GMs to try and control the growth of marestail especially in spring/early summer.
I've got a couple of impossible areas; I've dug the roots out a countless number of times now and it still runs riot, whereas other beds are pretty much clear with similar treatment.
I'm looking for a different tactic, hoping to outgrow it, especially in spring, early summer when it's at it's worst. Anyone tried doing it that way?
We put a thick layer of FYM on our plot in late March but will do it in the Winter this year. The horse tail was less rampant but still needs hoeing off regularly. Sorry no experience of green manures.
I doubt if green manure will have any effect. Apart from regularly hoeing off the growth, I have used ground control fabric to suppress the growth.
No..I don't think greenmanures are your answer neither..
..sorry..I think you may have to result to sweat a bit more.. ::)
Keep on digging earlypea. I have the dreaded marestail on both of my plots. You learn to live with it after a few years. ;D
I have a few bits [so far!!!!] of marestail growing in my raised bed, but it is being totally swamped by the New Zealand spinach which has turned rampant. The marestail is still there, but you have to search for it!!!!
Can someone please tell me what Green Manure is :) Thanks
Quote from: Bokkie. on August 22, 2010, 22:33:02
Can someone please tell me what Green Manure is :) Thanks
A green manure is a plant that you grow then dig in to improve the soil, mainly by adding organic matter, but also some fix nitrogen or help break up the soil or sub soil.
What earlypea is thinking of is a cover crop, which is basically what a green manure is before you dig it in.
A cover crop is a plant that covers the soil, and hopefully smothers and kills weeds.
I read somewhere that buckwheat releases chemicals that affects other plants and reduces their growth rate, or something like that.
I can't find where I read it, so has anybody heard about it, or knows where I can read more, or am I talking rubbish?
Quote from: Chrispy on August 22, 2010, 22:44:39
Quote from: Bokkie. on August 22, 2010, 22:33:02
Can someone please tell me what Green Manure is :) Thanks
A green manure is a plant that you grow then dig in to improve the soil, mainly by adding organic matter, but also some fix nitrogen or help break up the soil or sub soil.
What earlypea is thinking of is a cover crop, which is basically what a green manure is before you dig it in.
A cover crop is a plant that covers the soil, and hopefully smothers and kills weeds.
Ok that is very interesting, but what plants would you grow to smother weeds....
Quote from: Chrispy on August 22, 2010, 22:51:39
I read somewhere that buckwheat releases chemicals that affects other plants and reduces their growth rate, or something like that.
I can't find where I read it, so has anybody heard about it, or knows where I can read more, or am I talking rubbish?
All of them release various chemicals, exudates (I think they're called) which inhibit this or that, which is why I ask.
Another reason I was wondering is that I have some clover paths and they never sprout marestail, but then maybe it wasn't there in the first place. I'll try it. You can't carry on digging and digging for two years with no effect it's ridiculous. Must try something else. I covered in black fabric - it found it a lovely warm mulch.
Like I say, other areas got sorted out, but I think because these areas had millions of spore heads when I first arrived the infestation is far more intense.
Our council workers leave us piles of wood chip from there tree cutting , come October i mulch heavily, it decomposes quickly as it already started in the pile, I then spread mag-lime and rough dig , removing as much MT as possible, after a further dressing of FBB
and a rotovate in the spring, its all systems go. The MT is still with us but getting gradually better. (In my soil MT roots go deep > 2ft and spread like a net )
Quote from: Chrispy on August 22, 2010, 22:51:39
I read somewhere that buckwheat releases chemicals that affects other plants and reduces their growth rate, or something like that.
I can't find where I read it, so has anybody heard about it, or knows where I can read more, or am I talking rubbish?
OK, had a google of 'buckwheat' and 'exudates' and it seems you're right, buckwheat does have a good reputation for that. The word for having a controlling effect on weeds seems to be 'allelopathy' and this research doc popped up relating to buckwheat.
http://lnmcp.mf.uni-lj.si/Fago/SYMPO/1998SympoEach/1998s-7-12.pdf
I'll have a read and more of a search later - thanks for the buckwheat lead........
(Come to think of it I had planned to grow some buckwheat to eat so that's a happy coincidence :) )
Seems to-date research on allelopathy is inconclusive, but ongoing....
A straightforward summary doc from garden organic
Allelopathy - a practical weed management tool?
http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/organicweeds/news/story.php?id=1875
Understanding Why Rye Works as a Cover Crop
http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/organicweeds/news/story.php?id=1875
Quote from: picman on August 23, 2010, 08:53:23, a rotovate in the spring,
Don't you find that this chops it up and spreads it even more picman?
I guess it will , I go round and remove the MT that has poked through the chips also but I find the stronger roots get wrapped around the tines so get removed, also need to turn in the now rotting chips. I seem to be winning.
If only I could invent something that would get rid of marestail, I'd patent it then be a billionaire ;D ;D ;D
interesting for weed info and killing it!
marestail also included
http://www.allotment.org.uk/articles/Weeds_and_What_to_do.php
This is all very well but if I put glyphosate on all areas affected I would miss a whole year of growing crops. I'd rather lump it.
Doesn't liming get rid of marestail? It simply does not grow on chalk or limestone.
I remember as a youngster studying the geology of the south east and where the chalk of the north downs gives way to the upper green sandstone that it was marked by the occurance of marestail. I remember the geography teacher pointing it out.
I also thought the pototoes and courgettes have an effect on weeds. Thought having no marestail I have no experience of what effects they have on it.
Quote from: Digeroo on September 01, 2010, 00:58:39
I also thought the pototoes and courgettes have an effect on weeds. Thought having no marestail I have no experience of what effects they have on it.
I don't know about the lime, but certainly different crops have different effects.
For me squashes tend to stamp it out the best, partly why I grew so many this year. Then brassicas eventually as they get large, but if you leave them to flower and seed it pops right up again.
Alas, although potatoes are supposed to be a cleaning crop they are my worst nightmare. I think marestail loves crumbly, earthy up type soil with heaps of dark organic matter. It was imported to fix loose soil on railway sidings so it makes sense. Then peas; the dwarfs do a good job, but tall, spaced out ones make it go crazy. I think wherever you incorporate nitrogen it thrives. It doesn't grow well in my leaner parsnip and carrot beds at all.
It also adores dark manure/compost mulches, is much, much slower through pale straw, hay type ones.
I really don't think hoeing helps one bit.
Hmm....isn't marestail prehistoric plant...from the time of dinosaurs..so it has survived all the things that nature and man kind can throw at it... ::)...I do wonder if there really would be a plant that would be able to over take/control this natural survivor...err...maybe Japanese knowweed...that would definitely smother it.. ::)
I'm absolutely organic, but I must admit I have been tempted by this stuff - they say you can plant several days later. Some parts of my plot are fine, but others suck my time like nothing on earth because of it.
http://www.progreen.co.uk/index.php?c=55&p=156
Trouble is you'd need to buy a space suit to go with....and it looks highly dangerous.
I don't use sprays myself..but if the situation would demand...I would not feel happy to eat anything that has been growing on sprayed ground for a while..
I would result growing few lots of ornamental stuff..flower...and maybe some greenmanures too until planting any edible crops...I don't know if it would make anydifference..but it would feel right.. ::)
Quote from: Digeroo on September 01, 2010, 00:58:39
Doesn't liming get rid of marestail? It simply does not grow on chalk or limestone.
I remember as a youngster studying the geology of the south east and where the chalk of the north downs gives way to the upper green sandstone that it was marked by the occurance of marestail. I remember the geography teacher pointing it out.
That could be because water percolates so easily through chalk. It grew happily on the site in Oxford where my father had a plot, and soils round there are pretty limy.
Weed killer doesn't work on mares tail. My father in law even tried mixing it with wallpaper paste and pasting it on to concentrate the dose but it still survived. You just have to persist with digging it up.
Don't hoe or rotovate ground with mares tail as you just spread it. Every bit of the plant root and top growth that breaks off can grow into a new plant.
Not long after moving into our house mares tail sprang up every where - I could have cried :'( - that was 5 years ago and after countless hours digging the stuff up it is gradually getting better.
Liming helps a bit as mares tail likes acidic soil but not all your crops are going to do well if you apply loads of lime. The only area we do this is on our gravel paths.
Good luck and you have my sympathy ;D