*
Yes - I have it too - but what is it, and how did it get into my greenhouse?
Give them a dose of Epsom Salts
Aha! knew this link would come in handy sometime!
Lots of pics of the various trace element deficiencies here:
http://4e.plantphys.net/article.php?ch=5&id=289
Great ref. Jenny -- but WHY this year for the first time in over 50?? And EVERY plant.
And it's getting daily worse!!
First time with Westland grow bags?
Tim
Send that pic to Westland and see what they have to say for themselves - how many of their growbags did you buy this year???
I'm getting a lot this year... but it's just starvation on mine... grew them in yogurt pots for the sale on Sunday and with the hot April they grew too quickly and used up all the nutrients.. have given them a feed and they will be ok once in the soil (but a little delayed)
What I have lots of is Greenfly... am using the "Schools" greenhouse for storage and it is literally crawling!
:-\
I did - this am!
Only 20 of theirs - the others are from the Wormcastcompany which I'm trying out.
Tim, I threw 4 tommies out with small tomatoes on same sort of symptoms ...
Some others on our Lotty site complaining too. Not just tommies its happening with different things..
All the root systems of these affected plants I have seen ain't what they should be. I think its down to the compost/growbags etc we are now getting sold.
Is this down to the new recycled stuff that councils are making getting used to bulk up commercial composts?..
Is the compost \growbag running out of steam?...
Is there an in-balance in the mix ?
We could say funny weather conditions but I think we have been at it long enough to know the different smptoms we are experiencing ...
I am using Levington Tomorite growbag compost, transferred to 12" pots, so it does not seem to be manufacturer-specific.
Mentioned this on another thread.
Last years compost?
Cold temps?
I've suffered from both those this season.
Yes & no.
Compost? Unfortunately, It was collected for me so I didn't ask. But Burford Garden Co are usually reliable. I'll follow that up.
Cold? Well yes, down to 45F in the 'house, but then that's no surprise.
Mine were fine till I planted them out mid May, they had been hardened off, but after the hot and sunny April it has been much cooler, windier and wetter.......
O.K. - So now we know what it is, and that many of us have got it - but what can we DO about it? Is there some sort of mineral nutrient feed that we can apply?
Quote from: tim on May 31, 2007, 08:32:43
Great ref. Jenny -- but WHY this year for the first time in over 50?? And EVERY plant.
And it's getting daily worse!!
First time with Westland grow bags?
Well Tim I used Westland peat free compost 2 years ago for my winter pansies. I was devastated with them they were so stunted it was untrue. Leaves yellowing from the bottom. Tony went to homebase and got me some miracle grow compo and I redid all my pots and baskets. (this was in the spring) In a couple of weeks you could see the difference. They all started to grow. I wrote to Westland and told them about the problem and also enclosed before and after pics for them to see and they asked for a sample of the compo. I sent it to Ireland. They wrote back and said it was ok. I remember speaking to an old gent a few years ago and he told me that they use weedkiller to sterilise the compo and if its not left long enough before it goes on sale it can kill your plants.
I still say give them a dose of Epsom Salts
give em a good clear out eh Davy. lol
Oh yes cant beet a good clean out.
But i am serious, Type in Epsom Salts on plants in your search engine.
It replace Magnisium deficiency
Davy - sorry, I failed to acknowledge your post.
Yes, of course - Epsoms are part of the routine. As is Calcium.
But I have never had such a sudden & overall onslaught as this. Whatever it is!!
Nowts the bother Tim but looking at the photo,s that the bright yellow leaves look like Magnesium deficiency. The dark brown one i think means you have problems Tim but you already know that.
You are not using Organic Compost are you.
No - went 'cheap' this year.
May live to regret it!
So you probably got last years compost then Tim.
As far as i am concerned there is only one thing worse than that and its buying the cheep compost from places like B&Q and at the bottom of the list for compost is anything that has Organic written on it, that i wont touch.
We saw a lot of this last year on our site and never came up with a cause. Different composts ( and even direct in borders) were in use, and my first suggestion of epsom salts didn't seem to make a difference. between the various people who had the problem, we treated it as a virus, pest and nutrient deficiency but nothing semmed to solve it. The plants carried on growing and provided fruit so still baffled.
Quote from: saddad on May 31, 2007, 09:51:49
I'm getting a lot this year... but it's just starvation on mine... grew them in yogurt pots .... and with the hot April they grew too quickly and used up all the nutrients.. have given them a feed and they will be ok once in the soil
Quote from: greenscrump on June 01, 2007, 07:23:46
Mine were fine till I planted them out mid May, they had been hardened off, but after the hot and sunny April it has been much cooler, windier and wetter.......
Mine look pretty sick too, but I reckon it's a combination of the above. Now they are potted up properly, the new leaves look healthy enough. Just hoping that the weather will be kind from now on, and they can get going again.
Yes - it just has to be a deficiency, but so much more than the typical inter-veining & so much more obvious & widespread. And a 'high potash feed can make matters worse'!!
So in addition to Magnesium, I'm seeking a pack of Trace Elements.
No reply from Westland, yet.
Definitely widespread - we've similar symptoms and so does everyone locally that I've asked. Otherwise toms seem ok - perhaps a bit slower growing than last year. Have started feeding irrespective of whether in flower or not.
Fingers crossed ......
Tim, you may have already finished your research but... last year I found that the Miracle Grow Blue granules (NOT the solution) have the highest amount (different ones & percentages) of trace elements out of all the ones who bother to give an analysis.
Having applied as a foliar feed to mine this year (admittedly once planted out), they've gone from being like yours a few weeks ago to being very happy now.
Might save you a bit of time in B&Q or wherever...
*Miracle-Grotm - correction for accuracy!
Quote from: tim on June 04, 2007, 17:54:47
Yes - it just has to be a deficiency, but so much more than the typical inter-veining & so much more obvious & widespread. And a 'high potash feed can make matters worse'!!
So in addition to Magnesium, I'm seeking a pack of Trace Elements.
No reply from Westland, yet.
whats the ratio of epsom salts to water Tim. Have bought mine loose with no instructions
Mine have been fine with Wickes own 4 x 80 ltr bags of compost for £10.
Only very slight yellowing on lower leaves.
28g/l, Shirl.
cheers mate
how do I do a foliar feed please - Just drench the leaves ????
Thanks, Ollie.
As I read it, Miracle Grow is not suitable for house plants - does that include greenhouse plants??And Greenscrump - make sure your fertilised IS suitable as a foliar feed. With Magnesium you're OK. Add a couple of drops of detergent as a wetter.
You use a spray.
thanks Tim and davyw1 :)
Just checked with Scotts - Miracle-Gro is NOT recommended for ANY plants inside.
Also see this - http://davesgarden.com/terms/go/2307/
Gosh, he doesn't appear to hold it in very high regard! Mine are outside, but I still don't want to be killing off the micro-beasties in the soil...
I would not touch Miracle grow with a barge pole.
I use Growmore or make my own up
Quote from: davyw1 on June 06, 2007, 10:59:13
I would not touch Miracle grow with a barge pole.
Any particular reason? I'd like to know as I've used it for a while (mainly as a foliar feed when things are young and struggling) & still have loads left but will bin it if there's a sound justification.
My understanding (and I'd love someone to explain this to me as my Chemistry is shocking) is that "N" is allowed to be in an NPK (such as Growmore) in either Ammonium or Nitrate form. I
think that either can be absorbed by plants, but bacteria of some sort (Nitrifying bacteria? we get them in fish tanks) will convert Ammonium to Nitrate if it's not absorbed by a plant or washed away. So ammonia will hang around in the soil for longer (which makes me think about the "every 2 weeks" thing on Miracle Gro).
I also thought that ammonium is contained in large quantities in most animal "waste" and this is good for the soil (once rotted - is this where it becomes Nitrate?). Yet it's bad when it comes in a packet? You can see where I stop understanding!
I would be really grateful for an explanation of where my logic falls down or even further explanation of the chemistry involved...
Interestingly (for me), my chemistry teacher in school didn't like me because I always asked "why"?. My Physics teacher really liked me for the same reason. I blame that for my poor understanding.
BTW, there aren't any barge poles on my site so I'm okay in that respect but appreciate the tip! ;D ;D ;D...
OK I admit it, I've got the yellowing too. got quite a few trusses, so if i don't like the look of a leaf, I just chop it off !
No doubt I'll find out come fruiting whether it's something bad ... or not.
8)
I wonder if someone can tell me what the problem is with the second leaves in Tim's photo. Just noticed I have this (but not the other).
Thanks.
This was Bayer's reply " The leaves look like they are suffering nutrient deficiencies.
they distinctly yellow leaves would perhaps indicate nitrogen deficiency and the purple leaves with the yellow vein areas of the leaf would indicate a magenese deficiency with often the older or more mature leaves being affected. "
Haen't heard from Westland yet.
Nettles at the ready then ! Or I might splash out on some seaweed if I can find a supplier !
Quote from: MrsKP on June 08, 2007, 06:35:26
Nettles at the ready then ! Or I might splash out on some seaweed if I can find a supplier !
If you do give me a shout i wouldn't want to tempt fate just yet as mine are fine, but a splash of seaweed would be good.
Tim wrote"This was Bayer's reply The leaves look like they are suffering nutrient deficiencies.
they distinctly yellow leaves would perhaps indicate nitrogen deficiency and the purple leaves with the yellow vein areas of the leaf would indicate a manganese deficiency with often the older or more mature leaves being affected. "
The "more mature leaves being affected casts a bit of light on it Tim" ..What we have found is that stuff germinated OK, potted on OK Didn't show any signs if anything being amiss till plants were growing on . Then a bottom leaf or 2 looked sort of not right etc eventually the whole plant looked sick with the symptoms as you describe ..
Despite all that we have tried from seeing the first signs as in foliar feeding etc it ain't cured it .We have found the plant wont take them in ..
The affected plants have remained near useless, looking a right sorry mess and quite a lot have keeled over entirely ...
This has happened to a few of us but not to others on the site so we looked round for a common factor. What we have come up with so far is this.
All of us that have suffered in different degrees seem to have used the same general purpose compost this year ..It was new one to us, the allotment society bought a load in and it was also being sold locally by a few garden centres etc ..
There's four of us with adjoining lotties that sort of grow plants for each of us as I will grow one variety of say asters or broccoli and others will grow differing ones which we all share about .Three of us have used this medium this year .The old guy that didn't but stuck to his usual stuff ..Upshot is ours have been affected his hasn't so far ..We have hanging baskets quite a lot of bedding plants all in trays and potted on ready for going out which we keep looking at with perhaps a paranoid eye now ..
The maddening thing is it don't seem to show till plants are well on their way and it seems by then it's too late..
As a footnote to it being adverse wether conditions it has affected cucumbers and toms etc which have been grown in a heated greenhouse ..
It ain't all doom and gloom some stuff seems to be OK ..
I hope this post keeps running as it will be good to see the outcome of all this ..
What's the space at the bottom for??
It's for Drainage, Tim!
GROWMORE. 1, Did you use this compost to start of your seedls, then potting them into the same compost.
2. It has only affected your tomato,s
3. What do you store in your greenhouse.
Davy