Topic: A daft digging question

[Salpott]

This may seem like a daft question, but what are good digging conditions?

I was reading a book over the w/e about what to do in your lottie over the winter and it said "dig when you can".  Right now the ground is frozen solid and has been for days.  Before that it was very wet.

If I tried to dig when it had thawed out a little, would that be ok?  Would digging whilst still partially frozen spoil the soil structure?  Or do I need to wait til it's dry and thawed?

Forgive me if this is very basic stuff here but I'm still at stage 1 in the learning process  ;)

[sandersj89]

A rough dig over when partially frozen is fine but a lot depends on your soil type.

On my heavy soil I wont dig the ground when wet as it leads to compaction and mud. If it is frozen, while harder to get the fork in, you dont create the compaction or mud. The weather action then over the winter helps break up the clods.

On my fathers light sandy soil he can pretty much dig any time of the year but avoids the really wet times as this too has a big impact on structure.

Jerry

[terrace max]

My clay soil hates being messed with if it's wet. The soil structure collapses and you end up with a kind of sulky looking crust on top. Accordingly I confine my digging to early autumn and then only on very compacted areas.

In the main I leave my soil alone. Digging has no counterpart in nature. Some would say digging is a form of macho masochism wrongly imported from a now discredited twentieth century industrial agriculture.

Have you investigated no-dig techniques?

[Salpott]

My aim is to get a series of raised beds on the plot so I can go no dig in the future, but I've just taken it on and it needs digging to get me started. I'd like to get the beds ready for next Spring.  Was planning on getting them marked out at the weekend but the ground was so frozen I couldn't get any markers in at all!

I was thinking about getting sone boards for the edges but have read that they can harbour slugs.  So my next idea was to border them with chicken wire.  I know you dont need to have anything bordering the beds, but I like the idea of having some structure in place.  Is this a good idea do you think?

I like this site by the way...am spending far too many work hours reading away....

[derbex]

I've got clay too -terrible in the wet -you get plasticine. If I do dig I tend to put a scaffold plank or two across the bed and stand on thatdigging just in front of it.

Jeremy

[Moggle]

Clay here too. I ended up digging when it was a bit wet last autumn and winter, but only rough digging, and then I let the winter do the work for me. The plot was uncultivated and overgrown for years before that so needed digging (didn't have a source of manure at that point either).

Once dug and broken down I don't intend to dig again. It's impossible when really wet though, so I just take it as it comes, and do as much as possible when the conditions are good (or ask OH to  :))

[Doris_Pinks]

In a clay area here too, but now lovely raised beds! No dig, I just layer manure on them over the winter and let the worms do the work fo me! ;)
(Have mine edged with wood.
I also made a lasagna bed last year which has worked really well, would definately go that route again if I had any more beds to put in, my squash this year loved it!

http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/yabbse/index.php/topic,6059.0.html

[ipt8]

If you have clay and it sticks to your spade, or light sandy soil and its so frozen you cant get your spade in then its not good digging. :)

A lot of people just roughly dig with a spade turning the soil over and leaving it in bid clods(I think thats a word ???), and allow the frost to brake it up for you. Then a quick once ever with a fork when you are ready to use the ground.

When you think about it if you brake up all the soil as you dig you must damage many earthworms and other arganisms in the soil. Dermoid Gavin mentioned this to his students at Wisley a programme or two ago. You dig the soil to get out all the weeds, the digging can spoil the soil structure.

I expect someone wiser than me could expand on this with the no-dig ideas.... :-\
 
Ivor

[Salpott]

The plot was uncultivated and overgrown for years before that so needed digging (didn't have a source of manure at that point either).

I dont have a supply of manure yet, or any compost. (my wormery at home may produce enough for one bucketful at the moment  :))  What did you do about adding organic matter to your plot Moggle?  Any tips for a novice?

[Moggle]

Salpott, all I did last year (my first year - I'm still a novice too!) was dig over very roughly when it was dry enough. I probably dug at times when most people would say it's too wet to dig - dug 3 beds this way. I paid the price of waiting too long for it to dry out for the 4th bed, dug that in April-ish and it was like mud bricks for most of the summer  >:(

What I did do was start a compost bin, and collected a load of leaves for leafmould - I'm talking 10 or more bin bags full. Eventually I DID find a colleague who has a fantastic supply of manure she was willing to share. I collected it a month or so ago, and most of it is still in bags, hopefully retaining nutrients until the spring. It was very well rotted so that is not a problem. The other thing I did was throw the contents of used organic (composted bark) growbags over the top of the beds once the clumps of soil had broken down in the spring.

Lots of things grew quite well in my clay without much help - spuds, beans, peas, broad beans, brassicas, onions, leeks. Perhaps best to concentrate any organic matter you get mostly on areas for salads and root veg. I also got ahold of a couple of sacks of the compost they make from our collected green waste - I had to pay for mine, but some councils give it away free if you collect it. Slugs are a terrible problem on my clay, so try and protect young plants until established. I try to be organic, but this is the one area I failed - everything got munched and I ended up using pellets.

The leaves from last year are getting to a useable point now, and I will probably chuck them on a couple of particular spots. I have not walked on my beds and I think they benefit from this. I won't need to dig the established beds over again now - I hope. One other thing I tried was Grazing Rye as a green manure. The small section I sowed of this is now a nice texture - although it did seem to take a long time to break down.

Hope this helps. I am by no means an expert but this is what worked for me.

[supersprout]

... you could see if your local restaurants or coffee shops would let you have their green waste? I collect Starbucks' weekly output from the city centre, and bar a few bottle tops and metal rings it's a great success here, including the odd paper towel! ;D

[RSJK]

Salpott, I think that you can rest assured that most people on here will not think that  anybody is asking a daft question, at least you had the honesty to ask and have to be admired for that.

[Derekthefox]

I have had a few slip through that way too Wardy. Close examination normally indicates a pointed end, and the other end is flatter. This end is normally the root.

That works most of the time ...  ;D

Derekthefox :D

[Derekthefox]

Just out of curiosity, do they still grow?

Derekthefox :D

[Derekthefox]

That is a bit late to discover they are not growing isn't it?  ;D

Derekthefox :D

[Derekthefox]

The end of September ... so any onions still in the ground won't be much use ...  ;D

Derekthefox :D