Topic: Seed Saving Circle 2023

[galina]

Just harvesting Rose Family Beans, aka Racoon, aka Coon bean seeds.  This is one of the prettiest, but also one of the oddest beans I know.  My original seed batch came from John Yeoman, who got them from the USA.  This is his description. 

Coon
Climbing french Phaseolus vulgaris
Massive knobbly 11-inch long fat flat green bean pods, up to 8 seeds per pod, as wide as a cucumber, succulent and delicious when young; good as a dry bean when mature. Late.  Unknown in the UK. [JY]. 'An Eastern Kentucky heirloom, also known as Rose Bean, collected locally. A multi-purpose bean, good fresh and also dried.'
(eoq)

Mr Yeoman has both names for this bean and says Rose Family and Coon (Racoon) are identical.  However Beans with these names are also listed in the Sustainable Mountain Agriculture Center catalogue.  As two different beans!  With two different locations as origin, both however in Kentucky USA.

Here is Rose aka Rose Family bean.  It has the same type of seeds as mine.   
https://www.heirlooms.org/store/p45/Rose_Bean.html

And here is Coon aka Racoon bean.  This has a pink hue when mature as do mine, but the seeds look different. 
https://www.heirlooms.org/store/p211/Coon_Bean%3A.html

In other words, I don't know which is the exact bean I have, but call them by the prettier name Rose.  As this is also a bean that tends to be more prone to crosses than most, presumably because the flowers are more open and more likely to get visited by bees, maybe it is a third - an onward selection from either or both made by Mr Yeoman.  From the SMAC photos it appears that Rose seems to have fatter pods than Coon, again more similar to what I am growing. 

The pods are indeed very large and of the 'swollen' type, getting more twisted and gnarled as they get older with deep indentation between the seed bumps.  As wide as a cucumber, well that was perhaps a bit of poetic license by Mr Yeoman, but as wide as a gherkin definitely.  Their colour is interesting too, depending on the light, they are either a greenish yellow or a yellowish green.  Pods start off light green and get yellower with age.  The pods stay delectable as a green bean, even when the seeds inside have already developed.  And it doesn't take many to fill the pot, due to their size.  The seeds have the pattern which we call 'frosted'.  Very pretty, similar to Juanita Smith bean, but much larger seeds.  They have a strong string, which is easily removed.  This bean is late.  While I have never had issues saving seeds in Rushden nor did John in in his cool Ridgeway garden, nevertheless an early start is recommended. 


 


 

[JanG]

I had a bit of a disaster with squashes this year.  I tried again to add Todo el Año to the circle, but voles severed the plants at ground level with half mature hand pollinated squashes on.  I also handpollinated a big favourite, Sibley.  This has a very pleasing flavour and stores well too.  One of those fruits was destroyed possibly by slugs.  Fortunately the other one with pure seed did well.  Currently post harvest curing on a growbag tray indoors to mature the seeds for the circle.  Fingers crossed it contains many seeds when I cut it open. 

My first seeds were bought from the Abundant Life Seed Foundation.  Fortunately this squash is making a bit of a comeback.  I have noticed that RealSeeds is offering it.  It has excellent flavour and grows well (beasties permitting). 

A description of its origins is here:

https://www.siskiyouseeds.com/products/winter-squash-sibley#:~:text=The%20Sibley%20Squash%2C%20which%20is,vigorous%2012%2D15%20foot%20vines.

I second the commendation of Sibley squash. It's an excellent variety. I obtained seeds from Plant World Seeds in 2020, and have grown it each year since then. Given my failure to hand pollinate, it will be great to have 2023 seeds to keep growing it for longer.
Good to have the explanation of its origin too. Thanks for that.

[JanG]

I have just rechecked the Real Seeds page and they refer to an even older secret mix, to which they themselves appear to have added too.  https://www.realseeds.co.uk/lettuce.html

That's a great summary of the Morton mixes. Thanks Galina. Indeed there are plenty of unknowns. In particular it's unclear, as you say, whether Real Seeds added their own varieties or some other Morton varieties in 2014 and 2015. It would be rather surprising, perhaps, to carry on calling it Mortons Secret Mix if they added non-Morton varieties?

[JanG]

Just harvesting Rose Family Beans, aka Racoon, aka Coon bean seeds.  This is one of the prettiest, but also one of the oddest beans I know.  My original seed batch came from John Yeoman, who got them from the USA.  This is his description. 

I'm very excited to hear that you're able to contribute Rose beans, Galina, having heard quite a lot about them. The pod formation and history sound fascinating and another frosted bean would be lovely.

[JanG]

Would anyone be interested in receiving bulbils of Babingtons leek? I have a good crop this year and would be very happy to share with some or all of the Circle.

[galina]

Yes please.  I lost my garden ones in winter and only have a single plant as greenhouse reserve which could do with beefing up to get a bit more of a population going.  It has stubbornly refused to flower.  Maybe these would also come to nothing, but I would like another attempt to adapt them to conditions here. 

[JanG]

Good to have at least one taker for Babington leek. I hope your second attempt prospers more.

[markfield rover]

Yes please JanG, thank you. I have just been given four years worth of guinea pig ‘bedding’ so things are looking up for next year!

[JanG]

This year I’ve grown Long Blood Red beetroot from seed you shared in 2021, Markfield. I’ve just liberated the bed from quite a covering of chickweed etc, and found LBR to be enormously vigorous, making beets several times the size of three or four other varieties in the same bed. When I roasted a couple of beets though, they weren’t red as per the HSL description but mainly white with a pale pink stripe, like a paler Chioggia. They were delicious!
I wonder whether anyone else has found the same.

[markfield rover]

Interesting, I haven’t grow them or grew them , they were directly from HSL swap but I’ll give them a go next year to compare notes .

[saddad]

I have plenty of Babbington Leeks, I have found they are happy under an old Damson tree I have, out of the way and just doing their own thing!

[JanG]

Interesting, I haven’t grow them or grew them , they were directly from HSL swap but I’ll give them a go next year to compare notes .

That’s interesting. Do you mean that you and someone else swapped seeds which had come directly from HSL? It would be good to know whether your friend had grown them on and saved seed or whether they were HSL seeds.

[JanG]

I have plenty of Babbington Leeks, I have found they are happy under an old Damson tree I have, out of the way and just doing their own thing!

Yes, I think Babington leeks are quite tough once they get going, except perhaps for a certain amount of susceptibility to very cold temperatures if that was what threatened Galina’s. Mine grow in a bed where other alliums have succumbed to white rot but these seem to shrug it off. They did take about three years to build up strength though. I kept thinking in those three years that they had disappeared for good.

[galina]

What happened to mine was indeed the double whammy of very acidic soil and sustained freezing temperatures, like weeks of -18C.  And yes, it does take several years to build up a nice population and my greenhouse planted reserve plant isn't there yet, but at least it has survived in the slightly more protected conditions.  In Northamptonshire I had 3 populations, the first in the greenhouse where I planted the original bulbils from HSL, a second underneath one of the big flowering bushes along the borders of my veg patch and a third underneath the Autumn Olive oleagnus plants.  Never an issue and they were being harvested every year. 

The soil acidity here has been addressed and leek, onion and garlic growing is now much easier as a consequence, but the more severe weather conditions, we can't do a lot about.  Greenhouse growing is the obvious way to go - or go without, as unsuitable for the area.  It is a British and Irish coastal plant after all!  As with many things I grew in Britain, here we have to do things differently or give up on them.  So I am looking forward to continuing to acclimatise BL here to at least greenhouse growing and an extra portion of bulbils will be welcome. 

[markfield rover]

Interesting, I haven’t grow them or grew them , they were directly from HSL swap but I’ll give them a go next year to compare notes .

That’s interesting. Do you mean that you and someone else swapped seeds which had come directly from HSL? It would be good to know whether your friend had grown them on and saved seed or whether they were HSL seeds.

I got the seeds from our local Seed Swap and the seeds were from the HSL given to the organiser. Hope this helps.

[galina]

Is this a misunderstanding? 

The roots are not meant to be blood red, just the leaves.  Looking at Chiltern Seed's website.  If CH S are now retailing this variety, there is no need for HSL to maintain this variety, and this may well be why they gave packets to a seed swap.

Here is the CH S description.    https://www.chilternseeds.co.uk/item_1714c_bulls_blood_or_beetroot_leaf_blood_red_seeds

This also shines some light on the subject.  Roots are described as "pale red/pink in colour, with clear zoning."   
http://sfnottingham.blogspot.com/2018/02/beetroot-selected-cultivars-long-blood.html

[galina]

Here are some French beans I'd like to contribute to the Circle.

Climbing:

Myrtle Allen
A quite early small podded, productive white seeded bean. I received it from a Polish donor who cites his original source as Remy Orlowski. Unfortunately her Sample Seed Catalogue no longer seems to be available online so I haven’t been able to find any other information about the origin of this variety.

Had a quick search on how to use the wayback machine for old cached copies of pages.  Not that there is any meaningful information here, but this was the old catalog entry. 
https://web.archive.org/web/20210410212122/http://www.sampleseeds.com/?page_id=3725

 Remy writes:  Myrtle Allen bnMyrA
This a small white seeds variety that I can find no info for! It was early to mature so this would be a good one for the north. 
.

[markfield rover]

I know this is referring to 2019 , but this year I grew Dwarf Sweet Sue tomato , seed from Vetivert , it was hands down the tastiest tomato this year , up there with Coyote which I believe was from Galina . Thank you.

[galina]

MR, Silverleaf was the donor of Coyote.

[Vetivert]

Glad to read you liked them Markfield, and that I wasn't alone in thinking that they're jolly good!

JanG, I'd love a few more Babington bulbils please, thank you. The Minogues did well this year, but the Babingtons seemed less entusiastic for some reason.