Topic: Seed Saving Circle 2023

[galina]

All beans were great.  However, I had a vole disaster with the Uzice Speckled Wax and full sized plants with early pods were being severed at ground level and could not be rerooted.  One pod emergency ripened with seed and more seeds in the original packet.  Salford Black runner bean had the same fate, but did reroot successfully.  We had several early meals of these and after the vole incident a few emergency ripened seeds.  The new green shoots are not going to flower and make pods in time, so this is a candidate for overwintering this year.  This is usually very successful for runner beans.  Unfortunately voles have certainly arrived in this garden too after two years of hoping I had left them behind.  So I will need to grow through bottles again here too like we did in Rushden.   Robert Hazelwood had both greener and more yellow pods, just like on the SMAC photo.  And that very fine frosted seed pattern.  The red Ambrosia had a salad sized plant as well as the cherry.  Flavour nice, but nothing like the Ambrosia Pinks, which are just outstanding.  Ambrosia Pink is also very blight resistant and blight resistance was certainly tested this year.  Still picking pinks now.  In the greenhouse the later fruit developed more and more the look of pink on the airtable photo, the outdoor ones not, except that I picked the outdoor ones earlier and left them on the windowsill to post harvest ripen indoors in case blight got to them and would spoil them.  Ambrosia Red was not as blight resistant, especially not the salad sized one, which I have not saved seeds from.  The other Ambrosias I have yet to grow. 

Red Venture gave us lots of greens earlier in the year and I have my own seeds now.  Senposai from own seeds also has a prominent spot for a late autumn green.  These were from last year's seeds. 

The shallots were fantastic.  I took the seed parcel home in two parts and stupidly had left the shallots in my daughter's fridge first trip.  Nevertheless, they had not deteriorated which attests to their extra long storage capabilities.  They then burst into life and produced good quality 'nests' of shallots, ready not much later than normal shallots.  Definitely no need to plant these in autumn.  Nice round shallots too.    Rest of seeds in the freezer for next year or the year after. 

[JanG]

Interesting the different colouring you experienced on Ambrosia Pink, Galina. Mine have remained stubbornly orange (to my eyes). Photo taken this morning in the polytunnel. I agree that they're delightfully blight resistant. Here there's not been too much blight this season but, as you'd expect, there are signs now on quite a few plants but AP remains blight free and still producing.

I'd also like to echo what you say about Redventure celery. It's wonderful and now self-seeds quite generously here are there around our vegetable garden. Lovely to have this vigorous red stemmed celery popping up. And the shallots - a real favourite and, as you say, seem to keep wonderfully. Mine also were planted in early spring (1st March) and divided very well.

[JanG]

Here are some French beans I'd like to contribute to the Circle.

Climbing:

Myrtle Allen
A quite early small podded, productive white seeded bean. I received it from a Polish donor who cites his original source as Remy Orlowski. Unfortunately her Sample Seed Catalogue no longer seems to be available online so I haven’t been able to find any other information about the origin of this variety

Pete Ingram Fall
I’m not sure whether a ‘Fall’ bean is supposed to be later but I am finding this one has produced plentiful, very attractive red seeds seeds in good time. It’s from Knott County, Kentucky

Semi-runner

GagGa Hut
A semi-runner bean from the Seneca Native American tribe. I found it to be early and productive with attractive pinto-type seeds.
 
Dwarf

Ukrainian Comrades
Seeds were from HSL. It’s two varieties grown companionably. Good snap beans, one with green pods and one with yellow.

Coco Nain Blanc
I had heard of Coco de Paimpol which in the Paimpol region of France is traditionally eaten demi-sec or freshly shelled. I couldn’t find seed at the time, as it’s a protected variety, so bought Coco Nain Blanc instead which was offered by a French company Alsa Garden as a Coco de Paimpol type. CNB is a very prolific producer of rounded white meaty tender beans which need to be caught at just the right time for demi-sec shellies but make great dried beans if missed.

[galina]

Yes fall beans are traditionally sown later to come into their own when the weather is a little cooler.  Which makes them excellent for ordinary beans grown at the usual time in Britain. 

[galina]

Sowed a random handful of carrot Solvita seeds on Sunday, today they are up, less than a week.  Won't do anything now but it was only meant as a germination text and we are good.

Harvesting the Like Flashy Trout and Rossia seeds, there were a few spills, which have also germinated.  Here young plants of both lettuces in comparison.  The vivid purple spots on Troutback are already prominent even at this stage. 

[JanG]

Good news on the Solvita carrots, and the splashes on your one young lettuce are indeed very marked.

 As I understand it, Morton’s Secret Mix are all varieties he is/was still breeding from rather than a mix of his offered and finished varieties.

[galina]

Climbing French Bean Canadian.  This was one of my guardian seed beans for several years.  And it had its first grow out here and produced enough seeds for eating, seed renewing and sharing.  It is not very late, despite the HSL description.  It always made seeds easily in Rushden.  But definitely one that comes into its own after the summer holidays, when other beans start flagging.  Stringless and full dual use, either as a green bean or for eating the fat seeds.   

https://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/seeds/french-bean-canadian

[galina]

 

 As I understand it, Morton’s Secret Mix are all varieties he is/was still breeding from rather than a mix of his offered and finished varieties.

Indeed, we don't know what went into the Mix (it's a  s e c r e t  ) or which generation after a cross these seeds are.  Not finished, uniform and narrowly defined varieties, but unlikely to change looks substantially. 

[markfield rover]

A query , my friend has grown sunflowers from germinated seed under a bird feeder, which she transplanted to the allotment,the resulting plants have about  five heads each a different colour. I have never seen this before , is it common? Thank you for reading.

[Vetivert]

Canadian looks like an interesting addition. The seeds and unusual blush flower colour are identical Kahnawake Mohawk, a Canadian variety that I grew this year.

Morton's Secret Mixes are indeed as you describe them JanG, though I haven't yet grown any. What I had purchased was 'Wild Garden Mix', since delisted. It's a mix of everything, released and unreleased.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200814000742/https://www.wildgardenseed.com/product_info.php?cPath=43_75&products_id=112

I'm sorry to read that the tomatoes weren't as sweet as you had hoped. Do you think it may be down to our cold wet summer? These past two seasons have been very different, and in 2022 I grew them in a polytunnel with restricted water. I'll germ. test the Blue Ambrosia and send you some more seeds this winter.

[Vetivert]

Markfield, don't recall ever seeing that before, all on the same plant?? Very odd.

Edit: were they like these? https://www.takii.eu/products/helianthus-annuus-summer-lovin-f1/

If so, I've grown some like it, where there are gradations of the same colour palatte on one plant, but not wildly different colours on the same plant.
I'm under the impression that it is fairly common on decorative sunflowers, but would be surprised to know they are a birdseed type too.

[markfield rover]

Vetivert, thank you for your reply , I thought my friend had grown several different varieties and picked a bunch , apart from size they are very different , it’s like picking a bouquet but on the same stem. We will keep seed but have no idea what might happen , we know how to have fun! The bird seed was from Poundstreacher .

[markfield rover]

I hope I’ve attached the photo!

[markfield rover]

Oh my I’ve done it ! The above is the sunflower just one plant and eight variants .

[JanG]

Morton's Secret Mixes are indeed as you describe them JanG, though I haven't yet grown any. What I had purchased was 'Wild Garden Mix', since delisted. It's a mix of everything, released and unreleased.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200814000742/https://www.wildgardenseed.com/product_info.php?cPath=43_75&products_id=112

I'm sorry to read that the tomatoes weren't as sweet as you had hoped. Do you think it may be down to our cold wet summer? These past two seasons have been very different, and in 2022 I grew them in a polytunnel with restricted water. I'll germ. test the Blue Ambrosia and send you some more seeds this winter.

Thanks for the clarification on the two Morton mixes. I hadn’t appreciated that there were two different mixes, nor the subtle differences between the two. Interesting. In the wild mix, there is the possibility of actual marketed varieties, whereas not I believe in the secret mix. It’s the secret mix which I bought about 7 years ago and have grown from.

And thanks for the comment on the Ambrosia varieties. My watering in the polytunnel is from drip hose, and I suspect that if anything the tomatoes are over-watered. It’s always quite difficult to tell, and some plants are nearer drips than others. But an abundance of watering might well be a factor.

The difficulties with the Blue Ambrosia might well have been in my hands. The Pink Ambrosia marches on and on producing. Beautifully productive.

[JanG]

A query , my friend has grown sunflowers from germinated seed under a bird feeder, which she transplanted to the allotment,the resulting plants have about  five heads each a different colour. I have never seen this before , is it common? Thank you for reading.

I’ve certainly not come across anything like this. Most surprising. It will be very interesting to see what comes from the next generation.

[galina]

The Pink Ambrosia marches on and on producing. Beautifully productive.

I can only second that.  Wonderfully blight resistant, so tasty and very high production.  One of three tomatoes that are still going strong outside now.  The other two being Tim's Taste of Paradise and Broad Ripple Yellow Currant. 

[galina]

I had a bit of a disaster with squashes this year.  I tried again to add Todo el Año to the circle, but voles severed the plants at ground level with half mature hand pollinated squashes on.  I also handpollinated a big favourite, Sibley.  This has a very pleasing flavour and stores well too.  One of those fruits was destroyed possibly by slugs.  Fortunately the other one with pure seed did well.  Currently post harvest curing on a growbag tray indoors to mature the seeds for the circle.  Fingers crossed it contains many seeds when I cut it open. 

My first seeds were bought from the Abundant Life Seed Foundation.  Fortunately this squash is making a bit of a comeback.  I have noticed that RealSeeds is offering it.  It has excellent flavour and grows well (beasties permitting). 

A description of its origins is here:

https://www.siskiyouseeds.com/products/winter-squash-sibley#:~:text=The%20Sibley%20Squash%2C%20which%20is,vigorous%2012%2D15%20foot%20vines.

[galina]

Canadian looks like an interesting addition. The seeds and unusual blush flower colour are identical Kahnawake Mohawk, a Canadian variety that I grew this year.

Interesting information.  Could absolutely be the same or a very similar variety.  Both hailing from Canada and without any origin information beyond 'somebody ate these in Canada, liked them and sent them to HSL', they may be the same.  However there are also similar beans in circulation elsewhere, for example the Wildschweinchen (wild young boar, referring to the striping on the bean seeds) here in Bohnenatlas that is known in Germany.  Clearly a popular type.  Chances are that the origin of all the variants is the Kahnawake Reserve of the Mohawk First Nation people.  A genetic study would give clarity here on whether the variants are identical or near identical or whether they have developed away significantly.   
https://www.bohnen-atlas.de/sorten/w/348-wildschweinchen
   

[galina]

 As I understand it, Morton’s Secret Mix are all varieties he is/was still breeding from rather than a mix of his offered and finished varieties.

Indeed and quite different and separate from his Wild Garden Mix, from which both lettuces came that I grew (from seeds from Vetivert). 


I found a little extra information on Morton's Secret Mix on the OSSI group pages.

"Morton’s Secret Lettuce Mix 2021
Crop: Lettuce (Lactuca sativa)

Breeder: Frank Morton (Wild Garden Seed)

OSSI Pledge Date: 1/1/2021

Release Date: 1/1/2021

Bred for Organic Systems: Yes

Commercial Availability: Yes

Stability: Breeding Population

Source: https://www.wildgardenseed.com/product_info.php?products_id=713

Description
I reached back in time this year to grow out a cross of some olde and favorite varieties, ‘Blush Butter Cos’ X ‘Hyper Red Rumple Waved.’ These are truly of a different era, a project I set aside in the heat of other chases. Great taste and color in short romaine heads. There are also crosses of ‘Lotus’ and ‘Manoa’ X “Pointed Red To Heart,” and the next generation of ‘Red Ball Jets’ X ‘Wavy Dory.’ The diversity of shapes, colors, and textures in this mix is pretty overwhelming, and as original as it gets. I like to think his mix gives growers a broader view of what lettuce can be, and some appreciation of all the choices a plant breeder gets to make. Enjoy."




https://osseeds.org/ossi_variety/mortons-secret-lettuce-mix-2021/

Where it gets really complicated is that there seems to be a different 'secret mix' selection offered in 2020, 2022 and 2023.  With different lettuce crosses and different breeding aims. 
https://www.wildgardenseed.com/index.php?cPath=43_75%22


I have just rechecked the Real Seeds page and they refer to an even older secret mix, to which they themselves appear to have added too.  https://www.realseeds.co.uk/lettuce.html


Other Morton lettuce breeding mixes under the OSSI pledge are The Headhunter's Mix a mix of crisphead or iceberg lettuces and the Funny Cut Mix, a mix of oakleaf, frisee types.