Topic: Free Manure choices.

[Harry]

Might be a daft question, sorry.
I don't know my 5h1t about manure.
My new allotment has a pretty rubbish compost heap, so I;ve gone in search of free manure to augment it. That brought me to a few local Facebook Marketplace listings. One nearby is offering bagged up fresh manure and one a bit further away has 'well rotted' stuff to be dug from a big heap. I figure the well rotted is the better option, but is there an upside to taking the fresh stuff.
E.g. Could I use the well rotted stuff direct, but compost the fresh stuff?
daft question 2. Which would go better on my rhubarb? (and don't say custard)

I've asked the gifters about herbicides. Am I worrying too much?

[Obelixx]

Not a daft question.  Herbicides with aminopyralid are often used on pastures and then pass thru the grazing animal's digestive system and end up in their manure.  They can be toxic to gardens and kill or deform plants in beds where the manure has been used.

Assuming your manure is OK, well-rotted can be used straightaway to improve fertility in beds or as a mulch round individual plants/shrubs/trees tho you shouldn't spread it up against the stems of shrubs and trees.  Lay it as a doughnut ring around the trunks rather than a volcano shape heaped up the stems.

Fresh manure needs 18 months to 2 years to rot down well.  Using it fresh can burn plants as the uric acid content is too strong.   Good compost heap activator tho.

I suggest you get both so you can use one immediately and employ the fresh stuff to get your compost heaps moving and keep that cycle going with fresh deliveries each year.

[Beersmith]

Composting is not as easy as it seems.  I have one heap that has completely stalled, initially through lack of moisture but despite my efforts now seems inert.  The material has not properly rotted but seems almost preserved.  The volume is about a cubic metre and I'd like to get it to a state where it could be spread or dug back in to the plot.  I'll be pinching the idea to use fresh manure to get it active again. I'm pleased you asked.

[Obelixx]

Cold composting - ie a heap too small to generate heat and rot quickly - can take a year or more and you do need to turn it once or twice to add air.   If it's dry, adding water can help or, when you do turn it, adding in layers of fresh grass clippings or green weeds or fresh manure.

I take the lids off our metre cube bins when it's raining and then put them back when it stops but we do have other loose heaps with no lids and they just have to get on with it.

[Harry]

Composting is not as easy as it seems.  I have one heap that has completely stalled, initially through lack of moisture but despite my efforts now seems inert.  The material has not properly rotted but seems almost preserved.  The volume is about a cubic metre and I'd like to get it to a state where it could be spread or dug back in to the plot.  I'll be pinching the idea to use fresh manure to get it active again. I'm pleased you asked.

Indeed compost is a living breathing thing that needs care.
Last year, my little dalek composters roared into life (>60C) after I mixed in some swept up sycamore ( i think) leaves that had been laying on the ground, pavement  and in the gutter  from autumn into winter. It was a green area in a housing estate where the wind had a habit of swirling leaves to a quiet ignored patch of footpath. They'd almost decomposed where they lay. I just went out with a builders bag and scooped them up, to the amusement of nearby homeowners.
Made great compost.
If you don't mind pulling out the odd crisp packed, or whatever, the streets on a suburban estate can be paved with '****' :)

[Tee Gee]

I'll be pinching the idea to use fresh manure to get it active again.

The way I got over this situation was to alter my digging procedure, that is; I did it in Oct/Nov as opposed to in Spring.

I found a number of benefits from this change, e.g.

The soil was usually more manageable.

Digging in the manure, then, meant that it was rotting down in the soil over the winter months rather than in the compost bins/heaps, thus allowing the soil life (worms etc)to feed on it and keep them relatively warm.

I was fitter as and more supple in Oct/Nov as opposed to have to dig in cold weather, in possibly cold soil particularly if I had over indulged or become unfit over Xmas and the winter months.

Plus, another benefit was that the surface soil in Oct/Nov was relatively warm whereas in the Spring it was relatively cold, meaning I was transferring cold soil to the bottom of the digging trench in which is the area/depth I would be planting out my seedlings/plants a couple of months later.

I tool my cue from farmers who generally did their muck spreading and ploughing at the end of the year, then harrowed prior to sowing their grain seed. Potatoes were a bit different as usually these were sown in spring because of their susceptibility to cold, wet weather.

But again as I see it, this is one of the choices that is down to the individual plot holder, so each to their own!

Here is my slant on the subject.

https://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Content/S/Soil-Preparation/Soil%20Cultivation.htm

[Harry]

Back to daft questions.....
On the search for free compostables, I can get car loads of horse muck from a local stables. But that's maybe a surplus of one ingredient to the mix. I can get a few big barrowloads of wood chippings for the 'brown'. A local tree surgeon may have loads to get rid of. But I'm damned if I can get a good supply of 'green' I can beg my neighbours grass cuttings when cutting season arrives, but for now, the biggest heap of greens that I can get are really bad weeds including lots of couch and some bindweed. I'm a bit torn on whether to take such weed infested stuff, because short of getting the heat going, it could be trouble. But another part of me says. it's free and plentiful so take it, use it, just make sure it gets rotted.
Any thoughts on how and where to blag green compostables. I have no shame and have already approached two neighbours for their grass cuttings. But I want to go BIG on composting.... As in getting a few cubic meters of heap on the go.
A neighbouring lotter (correct me on terminology) suggested that a few of us should band together on a combined big heap. I'm not sure how well that would work from a cooperation point of view.

[Digeroo]

Having had a problem with herbicides in manure I am now very cautious about it.
I test every batch with broad beans.  A pot of soil and a pot of manure, you will quickly see the difference if it is contaminated.
Another rule is to never bury manure.  I put it on the surface near the plants but never touching.  Then in they show any sign of issues it can be easily raked off. 
I have one lump of what was contaminated manure and the worms still will not touch it.
Worms do not not seem to like contaminated manure and if they are abundant in manure I would suggest it is ok.  Also a contaminated manure heap does not heat up, so for me a warm manure pile is a good sign.
The effects of weedkiller in manure seems to be worse in my soil, so I would suggest that if you have alkaline soil you need to be more careful.
Bacteria in soil are supposed to breakdown the weedkillers. So I pour water with soil in it and yoghurt on my manure piles.  It seems to help.
That said I use a lot of manure.   

[Harry]

Having had a problem with herbicides in manure I am now very cautious about it.
I test every batch with broad beans.  A pot of soil and a pot of manure, you will quickly see the difference if it is contaminated.
Another rule is to never bury manure.  I put it on the surface near the plants but never touching.  Then in they show any sign of issues it can be easily raked off. 
I have one lump of what was contaminated manure and the worms still will not touch it.
Worms do not not seem to like contaminated manure and if they are abundant in manure I would suggest it is ok.  Also a contaminated manure heap does not heat up, so for me a warm manure pile is a good sign.
The effects of weedkiller in manure seems to be worse in my soil, so I would suggest that if you have alkaline soil you need to be more careful.
Bacteria in soil are supposed to breakdown the weedkillers. So I pour water with soil in it and yoghurt on my manure piles.  It seems to help.
That said I use a lot of manure.

Yes. I too am very worried about Grazon Herbicide. I've asked the manure sources, but I take their assertions as unreliable. Remarkably, the three experienced allotment neighbours I've spoken to were oblivious to the problem.
Thanks for the idea of testing with broad beans. Great tip.Also, the observation that worms avoid it. and not digging it in.
I'll be mad as hell if I get stitched up with plentiful toxic poo. And mad at myself for taking it.

Testing for grazon with peas or broad beans...
https://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/simple-compost-test/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAqjfDeG92U

[Paulh]

Don't add couch grass and bindweed roots to the heap: you just don't want to reinfect your plot with something that pernicious!

[gray1720]

Don't add couch grass and bindweed roots to the heap: you just don't want to reinfect your plot with something that pernicious!

You can bag them up with fresh chicken manure and they'll compost (I tried it, just to see what happens), but I wouldn't try to compost them with anything less savagely strong than chook shite.

[Harry]

Don't add couch grass and bindweed roots to the heap: you just don't want to reinfect your plot with something that pernicious!

Thanks. I was led to that conclusion with research after I'd posted.
Some say compost it, but that would need to be into a prospering hot heap maintained for the long term, and I'm only just starting mine.

[saddad]

It will compost if kept in the dark... double wrapped in compost bags but takes over 18months. Worth the wait though as it contains lots of nutrients. 

[Obelixx]

We leave couch grass and bindweed to dry out in the sun before either goes anywhere near a compost heap.   No green collection here so no choice about keeping them.