Author Topic: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.  (Read 9339 times)

Harry

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Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« on: January 14, 2023, 10:57:35 »
I just got my small plot. Looks like it's had ZERO attention for at least a couple of years or more.

A quick survey reveals it's had strawberries and raspberries and a small patch of rhubarb, but they are just integral with the weeds. The strawberries cover a random 2 to 4 square metres and the raspberries are just half a dozen tied canes with dead seedheads around them.

Should I bother to salvage those by weeding around them? Or maybe dig them out and move them? Or will they be worthless weeds themselves by now?

Allotment is to be used to grow veg, on a minimal budget. Much as I'd like to just nuke the lot and go no-dig, I can't afford to spend much on compost. Currently weeding by hand and trying to get ahead of the weeds with big sheets of black plastic. Obviously I can't just stick black plastic over the strawberry areas without sacrificing them.

Rotovating is not in my plan. I could strim it, fork it or dig it, but I want to save some effort. How much weed root can I get away with leaving behind? (How long is a piece of string)
I'm planning on trying to cultivate only half the area this year, because I figure if I try to clear it all, I'll run out of time for sowing.



Harry

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2023, 11:14:33 »
Hmmmmm.

Note to the esteemed site owner, moderators,

You do rather let adverts dominate the site. Sorry, to say. I know you need to monetise the site, but the auto-reply advert is a bit much.

I know.... Your site, your decision. I'd rather pay a subscription than see all those ads.

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H

Obelixx

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2023, 12:06:38 »
Sorry to say it depends on the weeds.  Annuals will be killed off by the plastic but perenneial weed roots, especially thistles and bindweed and couch grass will just bide their time and shoot again the minute you move the plastic.

The raspberry canes may well send up new shoots this spring and those will fruit so remove the dead canes and weed round them.   Starwberries are best re-planted every year so you crop on a 3 year rotation - the first year plants are getting their roots down and will not produce much fruit.  The second year plants will fruit well and the 3rd year plants will fruit and sen out runners you then plant out or pot up to keep the rotatio and vigour going.   If you want to keep your budget low, try some Tlc for the strawberry plants still there by weeding round them and/or re-planting in a cleared bed.

Start making your own compost with all the weeds and dead material you clear.  Try planting thru cardboard on new beds.  It will keep the light off weed seeds and roots and reduce your need to hoe.
Obxx - Vendée France

Deb P

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2023, 13:20:02 »
Knowing where to start is always the hard bit!
First thing I’d do is try and identify any useful features, paths, compost heap, trees.
Then I’d dig out any perennial weeds, especially docks and dandelions which will just grow back if you strim the tops off.
I’d then strim the rest and take off the long grass and annual weeds to start a compost pile or add to an existing one.
That should leave you with a better idea of your space, so you can decide what you want to grow this year. Only grow what you and your family normally eat or would like to eat! There are plenty of planting and sowing charts available online ( see TeeGee’s excellent resources on this site) to help you work out what needs sowing when.
After that, only clear an area when you are ready to plant something in it….there is nothing more demoralising that clearing an area, only to have weeds take it back over with depressing speed. Cover other areas you know you won’t be tackling for a while with weighed down cardboard from recycling skips to help knock the grass and weeds back before you tackle them. Prepare, plant and keep weed free as you go. I sow very little directly in the soil as starting seeds at home and planting them out at the allotment has several advantages. Making a defined bed or some sort, a area pegged out with string or with wooden sides can help your morale as it immediately looks better, it stops you walking on it and compacting the soil, and with a defined area if you have limited time you can concentrate on just one bed per visit, sort it out really  thoroughly depending on what it requires (dig it over, or cover it, or plant it up, or weed it) then it looks good and you can move on to the next bit.
It might seem overwhelming at first but regular visits doing just a few tasks at a time is usually a successful approach rather than trying to sort it all out at once. Getting to know your allotment neighbours can be a worthwhile sharing site knowledge and seeing what grows well there. Enjoy!
If it's not pouring with rain, I'm either in the garden or at the lottie! Probably still there in the rain as well TBH....🥴

http://www.littleoverlaneallotments.org.uk

Harry

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2023, 13:23:56 »
Sorry to say it depends on the weeds.  Annuals will be killed off by the plastic but perenneial weed roots, especially thistles and bindweed and couch grass will just bide their time and shoot again the minute you move the plastic.

The raspberry canes may well send up new shoots this spring and those will fruit so remove the dead canes and weed round them.   Starwberries are best re-planted every year so you crop on a 3 year rotation - the first year plants are getting their roots down and will not produce much fruit.  The second year plants will fruit well and the 3rd year plants will fruit and sen out runners you then plant out or pot up to keep the rotatio and vigour going.   If you want to keep your budget low, try some Tlc for the strawberry plants still there by weeding round them and/or re-planting in a cleared bed.

Start making your own compost with all the weeds and dead material you clear.  Try planting thru cardboard on new beds.  It will keep the light off weed seeds and roots and reduce your need to hoe.
Thanks, Last thing first: I already consigned about my body weight in weeds to a compost heap. A huge pile. And that's barely scratched the surface of a tiny corner of my plot. I've excluded the seedy weeds which I think included dock and bindweed. They are set aside for disposal. Maybe incinerate or take off the site.
Raspberries. I think I'll do as you suggest. Trim back the dead, re-tie the good and generally weed around them. See what they do in summer.
Strawberries look like they have spent the last few years spreading out by runners. I'm undecided really, but I would like to see SOME fruit this summer. So maybe a mixed approach of pull out and dump  the older looking source plants and separate off and leave anything that looks like a first year plant, weeding around them. That's if I can figure the old from the new. Probably relocate about half of the newer babies as well, so the beds will be where I want them.
Thanks for the cardboard tip. I think cardboard will be big in my plans, for weed suppressing and even for temporary paths.
I've never had so many weeds to deal with in my small garden, so it's a bit daunting. That black membrane stuff is a bit luxury for my budget unless I manage to scrounge some. I want to avoid chemical weed killer.
Perennial weeds. Hmmmf. I don't yet know which weed is what. Hard to tell because it's all dead looking at the moment. Few leaves to identify, just dried out sticks with seed pods on them.  I guess I just learn as I go. I think I already learned not to rotavate but I also learned I'm a slow worker and those darned weeds will be racing me.

Harry

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2023, 13:43:16 »
Knowing where to start is always the hard bit!
First thing I’d do is try and identify any useful features, paths, compost heap, trees.
Then I’d dig out any perennial weeds, especially docks and dandelions which will just grow back if you strim the tops off.
I’d then strim the rest and take off the long grass and annual weeds to start a compost pile or add to an existing one.
That should leave you with a better idea of your space, so you can decide what you want to grow this year. Only grow what you and your family normally eat or would like to eat! There are plenty of planting and sowing charts available online ( see TeeGee’s excellent resources on this site) to help you work out what needs sowing when.
After that, only clear an area when you are ready to plant something in it….there is nothing more demoralising that clearing an area, only to have weeds take it back over with depressing speed. Cover other areas you know you won’t be tackling for a while with weighed down cardboard from recycling skips to help knock the grass and weeds back before you tackle them. Prepare, plant and keep weed free as you go. I sow very little directly in the soil as starting seeds at home and planting them out at the allotment has several advantages. Making a defined bed or some sort, a area pegged out with string or with wooden sides can help your morale as it immediately looks better, it stops you walking on it and compacting the soil, and with a defined area if you have limited time you can concentrate on just one bed per visit, sort it out really  thoroughly depending on what it requires (dig it over, or cover it, or plant it up, or weed it) then it looks good and you can move on to the next bit.
It might seem overwhelming at first but regular visits doing just a few tasks at a time is usually a successful approach rather than trying to sort it all out at once. Getting to know your allotment neighbours can be a worthwhile sharing site knowledge and seeing what grows well there. Enjoy!
Thanks. Yes. It's daunting and I wonder if I've bitten off more than I can chew.... So I've resolved to literally chew less: I'll be trying to cultivate a fraction of the site well, rather than all the site badly. If I can do 20-25 sq metres this year, I'll feel satisfied. Whether that satisfies the site management is another issue :) *
Luckily very few dandelions and not much dock. The bulk of the weeds seem shsllow rooted and the soil is soft enough to pull most of them out.... So far.
Every walk up and down the plot is a voyage of discovery. While I was clearing a bit yesterday, I found what looks like a matted path of some sort. but it was under an inch of weeds. Makes me think this has been untended a LONG time.*
I like the idea of marking out areas as I go. I also agree that sprouting seeds at home will be better for me because once they're in the ground, I would need to know whats my food and what's newly sprouted weed. I'm not at all familiar with the difference :)

* If the site authorities can leave a plot untended to this level, they seriously can't expect me to hit their strict cultivation targets. And the targets are cripplingly strict!

Minimum Cultivation must take place as follows:
10% by the end of 1 month: 25% by the end of 2 months: 50% by the end of 3 months.

They can coco :)

They obviously didn't demand that of the previous tenant!

Deb P

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2023, 13:54:09 »
Interesting cultivation targets……surely it will depend in the time of year you take over a plot though!?

Another reason to have marked out areas to tackle, it looks like you are doing something even if the marked out are is still weed covered!

Find out if your site get any free deliveries of wood chips or other resources like seed swaps that you could utilise to avoid spending. I’d be tempted with your strawberries to dig them up, discard the oldest looking/ any poorly growing ones and put them in pots temporally, then clear a bed/ area completely to plant them up in rows well spaced and they will be ready to grow on and fruit this year.

This RHS link will help you id your weeds…
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/common-weeds

If it's not pouring with rain, I'm either in the garden or at the lottie! Probably still there in the rain as well TBH....🥴

http://www.littleoverlaneallotments.org.uk

Deb P

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2023, 13:57:55 »
Also take a look on this site at members gallery pics, lots of inspiration there!
If it's not pouring with rain, I'm either in the garden or at the lottie! Probably still there in the rain as well TBH....🥴

http://www.littleoverlaneallotments.org.uk

Harry

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2023, 14:45:26 »
Interesting cultivation targets……surely it will depend in the time of year you take over a plot though!?

Another reason to have marked out areas to tackle, it looks like you are doing something even if the marked out are is still weed covered!

Find out if your site get any free deliveries of wood chips or other resources like seed swaps that you could utilise to avoid spending. I’d be tempted with your strawberries to dig them up, discard the oldest looking/ any poorly growing ones and put them in pots temporally, then clear a bed/ area completely to plant them up in rows well spaced and they will be ready to grow on and fruit this year.

This RHS link will help you id your weeds…
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/common-weeds
Thanks again.
Good idea about moving them to pots. Buys me some time.

Most weed identification relies on having leaves to compare. But that will help, so thank you.

I've met the site supervisor, and he doesn't seem to give a dam. I asked him about the rules on sheds and greenhouses and targets and he neither knew nor cared. He say's he's on the 'committee' but they don't even meet up till March.  Much about the allotment association seems haphazard and amateurish. So I don't think he'll be on my back about those targets. I suppose throwing some plastic or card down and staking out areas will count as 'cultivating'

I wonder if Covid has anything to do with the state of neglect. I would have expected the opposite.

Beersmith

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2023, 23:31:48 »
The first season is always the toughest.

Working to your advantage - we are still in winter.  Nothing is growing rapidly at this time of year, even the weeds. Depending on your location you may have until early April before the weeds will start to growing at any speed.  Working steadily it is amazing how much can be done. Most important is getting to your plot regularly. If you are retired, a weekend visit plus a couple in the week, could give you thirty sessions.

Card and plastic covering is very good at weakening weedy top growth and will pretty much eliminate annual weeds while you are tackling other areas. Rather than the hard work of digging it might be better to try forking over initially.  This gives you a chance to check for perennial weeds roots and riddle them out.  Don't try to compost any of these just bag them and put them in the dust bin. The perennial weeds are your main potential problem.  Ideally you want an area cleared of perennial weeds before starting a strawberry or raspberry bed.

When springs arrives try growing spuds on any rough areas.  They are good at suppressing weeds and earthing up helps reduce weeds too. You get a final weed clearing boost digging them out. As areas come under control get a good hoe and use it, and use it again and again and again. 

Finally, while many contributors here avoid herbicides and pesticides you could consider knocking the growth down with a herbicide and digging it over once it's clearer.
Not mad, just out to mulch!

Harry

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2023, 23:54:13 »
The first season is always the toughest.
...
Card and plastic covering is very good at weakening weedy top growth and will pretty much eliminate annual weeds while you are tackling other areas. Rather than the hard work of digging it might be better to try forking over initially.  This gives you a chance to check for perennial weeds roots and riddle them out.  Don't try to compost any of these just bag them and put them in the dust bin. The perennial weeds are your main potential problem.  Ideally you want an area cleared of perennial weeds before starting a strawberry or raspberry bed....

Finally, while many contributors here avoid herbicides and pesticides you could consider knocking the growth down with a herbicide and digging it over once it's clearer.
Thanks. So far, I've been using the fork to loosen the nice sandy soil and then pulling the weeds out lock stock and barrel. Most stuff then went straight to compost. Unfortunately I don't recognise the weeds, so I could be brewing up  trouble. I tried to separate out seedy stuff.
Digging with a spade is far far to much like hard work  :happy7:

Might put down some roundup, but I'm reluctant to, especially if covering works something like..

Hopefully a good session tomorrow (Sunday) weather permitting.


Harry

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2023, 13:12:38 »
Should I bother to salvage those by weeding around them? Or maybe dig them out and move them? Or will they be worthless weeds themselves by now?...

Rotovating is not in my plan. I could strim it, fork it or dig it, but I want to save some effort. How much weed root can I get away with leaving behind? (How long is a piece of string)
Ooooh Boy..... I just gave it two and a half hours and I'm cream crackered. Getting into it slow and steady. :coffee2:
I'm giving myself a bit of variety by having little bursts of digging up big tough weeds in one area and snapping off easy old dead ones in other areas. A scattergun approach to wear out my body evenly. For now I'm working on an area where there's nothing worth salvaging, because I found that worrying about a few old fruit plants just slowed me down. Rather than progress from one end to the other, I'm taking out the bits where I can make fastest noticeable progress, mostly attacking it with a rake which seems to shift more bulk quickly.
It's nice to see some progress but I'm just scratching the surface and leaving lots of roots  behind. It's going to take a few passes to ever get any area completely ready to sow.

Next time I might try strimming some, though what I'm doing now is getting a lot of roots out.

Compost heap is getting well fed,

I'm trying to make it look like I'm 'cultivating' as big an area as I reasonably can to keep up with those silly targets..
« Last Edit: January 15, 2023, 13:14:14 by Harry »

gray1720

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2023, 22:35:15 »
Hang onto the rhubarb, it's mighty hard to kill and, once it sprouts and you can see where the edges are, you can clear round it. It's also a PITA to dig out - I made the mistake of trying to move mine, it had a taproot about the size of my thigh!

Roundup won't work unless things are growing so at this time of year it won't touch much apart from groundsel, which is easy to clear anyway.
My garden is smaller than your Rome, but my pilum is harder than your sternum!

Harry

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2023, 22:59:11 »
Hang onto the rhubarb, it's mighty hard to kill and, once it sprouts and you can see where the edges are, you can clear round it. It's also a PITA to dig out - I made the mistake of trying to move mine, it had a taproot about the size of my thigh!

Roundup won't work unless things are growing so at this time of year it won't touch much apart from groundsel, which is easy to clear anyway.
.
Good points.
The rhubarb is now weeded around and it looks like it wants to prosper. I'll let it do it's thing.

I really want to avoid weedkillers, since this is to be for growing food.... That and weedkiller is expensive  :icon_tongue:  I think, deep down I knew that weeds need to be green and growing to be nuked by weedkiller. Hopefully I can suppress them more naturally.

Too cold today to do much.


Digeroo

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2023, 08:54:03 »
I would suggest buying a digging hoe.  It is surprising just how fast you can clear a piece of land.  They seem to have gone up a lot in price, but ebay still seems to have some Silverline which are not too pricey. 

Any space that you cannot clear I would suggest covering in courgettes, squash and pumpkins.  They are allelopathic and kill most things round them.  Once they have finished the space they leave will be easy to cultivate.



Harry

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2023, 22:50:52 »
I would suggest buying a digging hoe.  It is surprising just how fast you can clear a piece of land.  They seem to have gone up a lot in price, but ebay still seems to have some Silverline which are not too pricey. 

Any space that you cannot clear I would suggest covering in courgettes, squash and pumpkins.  They are allelopathic and kill most things round them.  Once they have finished the space they leave will be easy to cultivate.
Thanks. Good plan. I've  been hacking at it with a rake in the same way as you use that digging hoe. That action seems to work well and is less backbreaking than digging.
I hadn't heard of Allelopathy. Sounds handy.. Probably explains why my courgettes stifled my beans and peas this year.

JanG

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2023, 07:05:50 »
It’s also easy to grow squash and courgettes through cardboard. Simply make holes for the plants and let them spread over the cardboard. It keeps them clean and the cardboard will suppress any further weeds. It does stop the squash throwing down extra roots but they still seem to thrive and produce in my experience. 

Deb P

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2023, 09:44:43 »
If you’ve got a good sized compost heap, in June put a bucket full of decent soil of muck in a hole on the top and plant courgettes or squash in them. The roots get a bit of extra warmth from the heap and the growing plants will cover the top smothering weed growth and shading the heap a bit plus you get a bonus crop as well!
If it's not pouring with rain, I'm either in the garden or at the lottie! Probably still there in the rain as well TBH....🥴

http://www.littleoverlaneallotments.org.uk

Harry

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2023, 12:45:48 »
It’s also easy to grow squash and courgettes through cardboard. Simply make holes for the plants and let them spread over the cardboard. It keeps them clean and the cardboard will suppress any further weeds. It does stop the squash throwing down extra roots but they still seem to thrive and produce in my experience.
I like the idea of courgettes through cardboard to keep them clean.

If you’ve got a good sized compost heap, in June put a bucket full of decent soil of muck in a hole on the top and plant courgettes or squash in them. The roots get a bit of extra warmth from the heap and the growing plants will cover the top smothering weed growth and shading the heap a bit plus you get a bonus crop as well!
Not a bad idea, though that would stop me turning the compost heap?
Plus what do I do with all these darned courgettes and squash, I haven't eaten last years yet. Indeed I got so many, and gave so many away, I ended up composting some.
The compost heaps are getting big, but they are new and 'fluffy', having come from the weeds.

Vinlander

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Re: Any Advice for Clearing My Badly Overgrown Plot.
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2023, 16:40:16 »
A lot of good advice already in, but a couple of things caught my eye - both in the area of that helpful new? US? proverb "don't let 'Perfect' be the enemy of Good".

1) Turning one or two compost bins is perfect - turning a mountain of compost is silly - it will do a good job on its own - & long before you will have time to use it. Growing stuff on the heaps is the best possible plan - in fact creating planters with pallets or builders' bags will allow you to plant carrots (especially red/purple ones) too high for the "fly".  White or yellow ones do OK at ground level for me - but the taste is different.

2) No perennial weed can withstand being dried out - once it's crispy-dry it's dead & double-dead (I've done the experiments) - then you can compost them with everything else and avoid gassing your neighbours with smoke pollution.

If you have a lot then you need to find some metal grilles or mesh (or netting 'hammocks') to spread them out above the damp soil. Once you've done this they will dry out twice as fast (and rain just washes the soil off so they dry nearly as fast as in a drought). This doesn't only apply to dandelions & docks etc. it also applies to couch grass and bindweed - though both routinely go down a spade depth and bindweed needs to be followed wherever it goes deeper. Neither of the latter 2 buggers can be killed in water - it's a popular suggestion but it's 100% nonsense (not to mention the smell).

One more thing - perennials can be weakened a lot by a year under black plastic - but it has to be 100% opaque. I made the mistake of using silvered (painted) tarp but when I held it up in summer it was only 90% opaque - it killed a lot of stuff in winter but by March, grass and even chickweed were flourishing under it. My temporary fix was to spread a mat of "safe" weeds to dry on it, a better solution is 'roof-tiling' it with whole opened newspapers held down with tree & branch prunings - surprisingly windproof & the tarp or plastic is key to stop weeds escaping through the gaps. The result also UV-proofs the plastic - it's (I hesitate to say it) Perfect and cheap (even foxes give up trying to dig through tarp).

Cheers.

PS. on light soil you may find the soil dries out under the middle of wide plastic - so lay in 1.2m strips across any slope - that way if you move to raised beds (on my plot it's indistinguishable from terracing) then you'll already have the perfect covers for them.
With a microholding you always get too much or bugger-all. (I'm fed up calling it an allotment garden - it just encourages the tidy-police).

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