Topic: Pruning Erect Blackberry Bushes

[George the Pigman]

I have both a trailing and erect blackberry bush on my plot which usually give me good crops. I know with the trailing one you cut out this years fruiting crop but leave the new shoots to produce next years crop. But I have always been a bit unsure about what to do about my erect blackberry bush which is now rather big.. Apparently some varieties fruit on the second year shoots whilst others fruit on the first years and of course I cant remember the name of my variety!
Any advice or experience with these erect blackberry bushes?

[saddad]

I usually cut out the oldest wood, three years+, usually much darker so easy to spot.

[Beersmith]

To begin let's make sure we are agreed on the terms being used.  First year wood are canes that grew this year.  Second year wood is stuff that initially grew last year. Very few blackberries fruit on first year wood. Raspberries that do this are called primocane and are very common but I have only ever heard of one primocane blackberry called Reuben, although there may be others. (And of course there are lots of floricane raspberry varieties that fruit on second year wood.

Most blackberries fruit on second year wood.  That is wood that grew last year. In my experience that is it. I've never had any fruit to speak of on third year wood.  You sometimes get a bit of extra growth on the end of second year wood that will fruit but strictly speaking it's just new top growth, rather than new wood that has sprung from the base.

So, with respect to saddad, I would completely remove all two year wood at the end of the fruiting season.  Then space out and tie in all the new growth that will bear fruit next year.

Blackcurrants on the other hand are a whole different issue . . .

[saddad]

You are not wrong Beersmith, I read Black Currant.... (you just can't get the advice theses days!!!!)

[IanDH]

I tend not to think about 1st/2nd/3rd year canes.  I just cut back anything that has fruited (to the ground) and tie in what is left.  Makes it very easy for me to remember and deal with.

Never really looks like I have left enough to be useful, but the side shoots that develop fill the gaps really well and produce an abundance of fruit.

[George the Pigman]

No need to tie in this one its not a trailing variety its a bush! I have an Oregon Thornless I have had for many years that is a trailing variety and I know to cut out the second year branches. This is a bush variety which is much less common in gardens and allotments but apparently is more common commercially. A few of these apparently fruit on first year wood hence my dilemma.
Has anyone actually had a bush non-trailing variety of blackberry?

[Beersmith]

No need to tie in this one its not a trailing variety its a bush! I have an Oregon Thornless I have had for many years that is a trailing variety and I know to cut out the second year branches. This is a bush variety which is much less common in gardens and allotments but apparently is more common commercially. A few of these apparently fruit on first year wood hence my dilemma.
Has anyone actually had a bush non-trailing variety of blackberry?

One clue might be how long you have had the bush.  Primocane blackberries are a fairly recent development. If you Google primocane blackberries you can only find a few varieties that are primocane.  Black cascade (a trailing type) and Reuben are about the only ones I could find from the bog standard suppliers.  If the bush is old chances are it is a standard floricane. 

But it should be easy to establish. First method (this is a drastic and high risk approach) prune out everything this winter, old wood, new wood, everything.  If it is primocane it will grow back next spring and fruit in the autumn.  If it is not it will grow back next year but you'll get a season without any fruit at all but you will know for sure it is floricane.  Less risky is to prune out all the wood that carried fruit this year and next season simply observe where you get the fruit.  Might be worth marking or labelling the second year wood and the new growth as it appears to be sure but that should settle the issue.

Finally you could have a close examination of the bush right now.  On a standard floricane blackberry the difference between wood that has fruited and new wood that will fruit next year is very obvious.  If everything on the bush looks as if it has carried fruit it may be primocane.

As an aside I don't think the distinction between bush and trailing is actually relevant to your problem. Blackberries have a huge number of varieties and a lot of variation in growth habit, berry size and shape, ripening period, thornless or not, etc. It is unlikely to be an indicator of primocane versus floricane.

Good luck.

[George the Pigman]

Thanks for all your advice. I took it and basically cut out the fruiting branches leaving the others alone. That way I can't go wrong.

[Beersmith]

Thanks for all your advice. I took it and basically cut out the fruiting branches leaving the others alone. That way I can't go wrong.

Indeed.  A good plan!

Growing is often more complicated and challenging than you might think.  I had a modern blackberry variety that in many ways was superb.  Strong growing, prolific, and with loads of really big sweet berries. But it had a big flaw. The berries were very tightly clustered, so any spells of damp weather while the berries were ripening resulted in mould forming between the tightly packed berries.  I had a reasonable yields one dry year, but usually a lot was lost because of the mould, sometimes almost all.  I dug it up in the end. Live and learn!

[Deb P]

I’m in two minds about a thornless blackberry I have grown against a trellis at home…it produces a lot of very long new growth every year, but seems to fruit only at the very ends of the canes which are over 4m long! I’m tempted to dig it up and perhaps move it to the allotment and train it against some posts and wires or over my polytunnel frame…or perhaps just start again! ?

[Beersmith]

I’m in two minds about a thornless blackberry I have grown against a trellis at home…it produces a lot of very long new growth every year, but seems to fruit only at the very ends of the canes which are over 4m long! I’m tempted to dig it up and perhaps move it to the allotment and train it against some posts and wires or over my polytunnel frame…or perhaps just start again! ?

Well you are certainly doing something right. To get 4m of growth in one season is truly phenomenal.  That is one incredibly vigorous bush  Personally I am pretty ruthless about new blackberry growth. If new growth is weak and spindly or getting too long or growing in the wrong direction or is too dense and is overcrowding other new growth I'll happily prune it immediately to force the bush into the shape I want for the next season and let the bush direct it's vigour into the other new shoots. You've got to show them who is the boss!