Topic: Advice on planting apple trees

[cropping]

Hello,

I want to plant some apple trees in my allotment (which is permitted). I want to train them in espalier. At the moment, I have the following questions:

• When is the best time to plant apple trees?
• How can I find a reputable specialist nursery near me? (I live in Milton Keynes)

Thank you very much for your help!

[Tee Gee]

Read the attached link including the related links and that might help;
http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Content/A/Apple/Apples.htm

[Beersmith]

Well you are wise to seek advice, and I think you will be given some excellent advice on this website, but I'd also recommend further research on line and perhaps also getting a book or two.

The first thing to remember is that every apple tree is actually made up of two parts, the upper fruiting part and the rootstock. The upper part controls the variety, but the rootstock controls the mature size of the tree. Rootstocks vary from very dwarfing (M27) to dwarfing (M9) semi dwarfing (M26) semi vigorous (M106) and other more vigorous and bigger varieties.

Our field only allows up to M26 as otherwise trees are likely to get too large and cause problems for neighboring plot holders.  But it gets more complicated as the final size will also depend on the quality of the ground in which they are growing.  Poor quality ground will inhibit growth and deep rich soil will enhance it.  Dwarf trees tend to start bearing fruit quite quickly.  If you let them carry a lot of fruit while still young that will tend to accentuate the dwarfing. 

Two other key issues to research are pollination and pruning.  Some varieties are self fertile but most will benefit from at least one pollinator.  Pollinators need to be in the same group, but it is easy to find on line guides that will help.  Also remember apple trees are common on allotments so those close by on other plots could help and even some crab apples in nearby hedges may assist.  One or two varieties are triploid which means they need two other pollinators.

Pruning is not difficult, but forms like espalier are not so easy. Apple trees can be annoying at times never quite growing exactly as you would wish.  For an espalier some recommend a slightly more vigorous rootstock as you will need to restrict growth to get the required shape.  Not such an issue on a dwarf bush where you can be a bit forgiving if the tree shape is not exactly as you envisaged.

Between my back garden and my allotment, I have ten apple trees in all.  Two crabs, two cookers and six dessert varieties.  The edible ones are mostly on M9 so I can pick the apples without ever needing steps, plus one on M27 where space was a bit limited.


The best news is that you have a reasonable amount of time of to make your decisions.  I'd suggest you go for good quality bare root trees and these can be planted up to the end of March in most areas.  Perhaps even April if you are in the north of England or Scotland.

Happy growing!

[cropping]

Thanks a lot Beersmith for your good advice.

Regarding training in espalier, I had some second thoughts. My time is quite limited (young family) and the plot is quite exposed to winds. So overall, I think I will drop this idea of espalier training. I wanted to save space, but I don't think I will have to time to train the trees properly. I already got informed about rootstocks and pollination. I decided to go for some dwarfing varieties. I also wanted early apples, so in the end I will plant four apple trees: 2 early varieties and 2 late varieties. Because the wind exposure, I will probably need to stake them as well.

I still need to know how to find a good, specialist nursery near me. I also found out I can buy some from the RHS website; I guess these would be good quality?

Another question: How far apart such they be planted for, say, M26 rootstocks?

Many thanks!

[ACE]

If you want a good nursery to purchase your trees try Deacons they do mail order. I hope they are still going after all that's been going on. I have never heard a bad word against them and as they are local to me I used to use them when we wanted special trees for our show gardens. Have you also thought about family trees two or three varieties on one rootstock, great for saving space and cross pollination.

[saddad]

I've always been impressed with them too... but not had need to buy any for a few years now.

[Vinlander]

Have you also thought about family trees two or three varieties on one rootstock, great for saving space and cross pollination.

I have a dozen varieties as cordons in my back garden, and now they are producing well (10-20 years) I'm very glad that I planted very few early varieties - because they don't keep well, so I'm always rushing to juice them before they go too soft and mealy to eat (especially because by that time the later ones are nicer & a better option - even when they are picked a bit too early).

I would go further and say one of the best things about a family tree is when it is shared with one or two keepers - then you can prune and thin the earlies to produce the crop you need, while maximising the others that will last months.

It's a lot easier than re-grafting a singlet tree to something more useful.

And don't think you have to keep keepers before you can eat them - as soon as they start to ripen they are just as nice straight off the tree  - often better...

Our forebears had to have stored apples to maintain their health, we don't have that problem, so we eat all of mine while they are fresh and zingy - in fact while they are considerably better than what's in the shops - when that balance changes they can be juiced at leisure.

Very soon after that, the first apples from the S. hemisphere arrive - though growers in the N. hemisphere will push theirs out of storage at the same time - & try to obscure the fact that their apples have lost most of their flavour in the last 6 months - and the fact that they sell them cheap to the retail trade who then make an even bigger profit by "being economical with the truth".

On the other hand if you like sweet, soft, mealy apples you might as well get them from the shops and save yourself the trouble - crab apple trees are prettier after all.

Cheers.

PS. Egremont Russet and Pitmaston Pineapple become delicious in August, get better for a few weeks, then hold their flavour for months. The best varieties for "big zing" and big flavours are Ashmeads Kernel (AGM) and William Crump - for even more months. After that the Zing-King of tasty keepers is Sturmer Pippin.

PPS. Don't forget the planting rule -  a square hole is always better than a round one the same size - in fact if you want to be a smart alec you can go triangular or even pentacle - that should impress the moon/crystal-botherers

[cropping]

If you want a good nursery to purchase your trees try Deacons they do mail order. I hope they are still going after all that's been going on. I have never heard a bad word against them and as they are local to me I used to use them when we wanted special trees for our show gardens. Have you also thought about family trees two or three varieties on one rootstock, great for saving space and cross pollination.

Hi ACE,

All right, thanks. I searched for "deacons nursery" but got plenty of results... Would you be able to provide me with a link?

Thanks a lot!

[Beersmith]

At the risk of repeating myself I would still suggest lots of further reading and research before making final decisions.

On an exposed site M26 is probably a better choice than M9. The latter require staking for some years even in good growing ground and in less favourable conditions probably permanent staking.  But remember M9 is heavily used commercially for good reason.  It allows closer planting, is easily managed and produces good sized apples - a slightly surprising side effect.  For M26 distance apart is recommended at about 9 or 10 feet.  When fully grown you may need steps to reach the top fruit.

Great advice from Vinlander on varieties.  If you want really good tasting apples consider also Kidd's orange red, scrumptious, or fiesta.  Scrumptious is early.  Taste is always a bit personal. In my opinion sunset is one of the very best.  Some of these varieties have added advantages of being disease resistant.

You will also need to consider tip bearing versus spur bearing varieties.  The latter are easier to prune.  Tip bearers (not difficult) but do require a slightly different technique and just a little bit trickier.

Family trees are an excellent idea, but you have to accept the combination of varieties on offer. I have often looked at them and thought the first variety is good, second variety ok, but I don't want the third. No thanks. I have never seen a perfect combination.

Try browsing the orange pippin website.  They supply very good trees but equally are very expensive, so not a recommendation.  But lots of information for free.

While I mentioned that you have time, don't take too long as nurseries are often a bit low on stocks at this time of year having spent the winter months sending out bare rooted trees for winter planting.

Can't think of much else, but keep checking.  Lots of great gardeners here and there may be more suggestions to come.

[Deb P]

Deacons fruit nursery is on the Isle of Wight, but it looks like their website is currently being updated. I still have an excellent informative catalogue from 2006 which explains rootstocks and fully grown sizes of the different types really well. You will still need to do some pruning if you grow dwarf trees so it’s not a way to avoid it, but the rhs site has good advice of pruning. You could also consider looking at the Brogdale site

https://brogdalecollections.org/

which keeps heritage trees going, I have purchased a few from them previously. I still have cordon apples and pears I bought from Deacons in 1994 in my back garden growing against a fence, they need pruning twice a year but it’s not technically difficult once to know the basics.

[Paulh]

When choosing varieties, you need to think about frost, particularly if your site is in a likely frost pocket. You might need later flowering varieties if there's a risk of a heavy frost hitting earlier ones.

[Digeroo]

I used to go to Milton Keynes regularly and always enjoyed a stop off at Buckingham Garden Centre.
I got all my apple trees from Lidl and Tesco.  And they have done well.   

[Beersmith]

I used to go to Milton Keynes regularly and always enjoyed a stop off at Buckingham Garden Centre.
I got all my apple trees from Lidl and Tesco.  And they have done well.

I haven't visited for a while but always liked the place.  Much like garden centres used to be.  Good plants trees and shrubs and a wide selection too.  Used to have a group of about eight bee hives up one corner. Are they still there?