Topic: Smothering Weeds

[skypilot]

It seems to be general policy these days to cover any fallow ground or weedy ground with black material in order to smother or inhibit the growth of weeds. I suspect though that this does the garden more harm than good especially during the winter as it provides a nice comfortable habitat for snails, slugs and other enemies of the garden.

I prefer the old method of initially digging and handweeding, as this clears the ground of the major perennial weeds leaving mainly the annuals to be dealt with and incinerated on a hot day

Whats your opinion ?

[northener]

I use laying black plastic method until i get round to digging and hand weeding. It makes digging easier when you do get time. I turn plastic every now and again to get the slugs off underside and make a trifle out of them.

[johcharly]

ah the old north slug trifle delicious ;D

[gavin]

Hi skypilot - far too early to say anything, but if my lazy beds work out, stuff the coverings?

All best - Gavin

[skypilot]

Lazy Beds? Wots them ???

[wardy]

No dig beds I think.  Let me know about doing the beds without the coverings Gavin.  I'm doing no dig with coverings but I might have a go without sheeting everything and just mounding up with grass clippings or straw etc.  Is that what you mean?

Skypilot I wouldn't have thought that covering your weeds over with cardboard or sheet mulch would be in any way detrimental to the soil.  It gives you breathing space to complete your weed clearance systematically rather than killing yourself by going at it all at once.  The weeds can't get any worse if they're under cover.  We aren't all superfit or have bags of time to spend digging and clearing weeds.  If you want to get started right away then you can with no dig.  It's good for recycling stuff as well, eg garden compost, manure, straw, cardboard etc. At the end of the day you do as you like but don't dismiss it out of hand without reading up on it first.  I grew lovely spuds using this method and didn't have to use a spade.  Easy to pull them up too  ;D

[legless]

sometimes its just not possible to dig them all out in the time available, i dug what i could then covered the rest so it wouldn't get any worse. i bunged a load of manure underneath and uncovering it to dig now the manure has been worked into the soil by worms, all the snails and slugs are immediately exposed and squashed and the roots are easier to dig out.

[gavin]

Lazy beds - no-dig???  Have you seen my bill for Radox ;D?

But fairly similar I suppose!

1.  Cut the grass and weeds real short.
2.  Lay a thick layer of manure, 24-30 inches wide.
3.  Cut the turf either side so that you have 15-18inch "flaps" to fold over the manure.
4. And dig out soil from the now exposed bits to pile on top.

Plant potatoes at step 2, or sow bean seeds/transplant brassicas at step 4.

I've got to step 4 - aha, but proof of the pudding and all that!  We'll see what happens through the season.  But at least as far as this week, it is stunning how quickly ground can be made usable?  When I thinkof the hours and days I've spent clearing and working the other beds :(.

A summary of the Kitchen Garden article which set me off on this - http://www.keirg.freeserve.co.uk/diary/tech/lazybed.htm

All best - Gavin

[Roy Bham UK]

I think I've lost the plot here ??? You leave a 36" wide peace of land at any length, cover with manure and then dig 18" of turf/weeds either side and fold over, ??? then you dig the 18" subsoil either side and throw on top of the sods ???

Why not just double dig the 36" with manure, I can't see the labour saving bit ??? I lost it haven't I ???

[redimp]

Ok - have not covered anything and I am now digging out new growths of turf and weeds everytime I want to plant something.  I have no old carpet or anything I can just throw over my soil so how much is an allotment's worth of black plastic going to cost me?

Wow - I have just realised that was my hundreth post and I am now a full member.  Must go through and tell my partner - she will be pleased after all this time  ;)

[Svea]

RC, cant you go and have a look in the council tip for some old carpet, or vinyl, or something like that? just make sure it doesnt have any foam backing. or walk around the skips in your area - someone is always ripping  out carpet round here

it doesnt hurt to ask :)

svea

[skypilot]

Thanks Gavin, I think I get the general picture - hardly "lazy beds" though, sounds as much work as clearing the ground, although it does appear to make the ground immediately usable.

Wardy, I wasn't criticising, merely making an observation, I was visualising all those slugs/snails and other unmentionables reproducing a hundred fold in the tropical environment beneath the poly. See the post:

http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/yabbse/index.php/topic,8017.0.html

For example, I removed a sheet of wood which was leaning against a wall in the allotment to find somewhere in the region of twenty plus snails, not to mention slugs and others. In addition to which my allotment

http://community.webshots.com/album/286599773CoPRDK

was intially covered with a tarpaulin on one side and reflecting on these cases and discussions with other allotment owners  occasioned my post with regard to the poly.

As for being super fit, chance would be a fine thing I am 64 and the subject of two heart bypass operations over the past 18 years so its a matter of dig two rest two  :)

I have the advantage of course of being next door to the cemetery should things get too strenuous   ;D

Gavin, I've just had a look at your diary page:

http://www.keirg.freeserve.co.uk/diary/diary2005/apr05.htm

I can see clearly what you mean now, you have my deepest symapthy, you certainly have your work cut out for you there  ;)

[wardy]

Ta for the info Gavin.  I googled for lazy beds and discovered that it seemed to originate in the western isles and Isle of Man donkeys years ago

"before the advent of modern ploughs, alternative techniques had to be used to create a good depth of soil for crops. The result was the creation of rows of low, parallel banks, often known as lazy beds or butts. Lazy beds were usually dug by hand in gardens or small enclosures; they were often fertilised with manure or seaweed"

Skypilot   I know you weren't   :)    My allotments back onto the cemetery as well,.  Feel at the moment that  I've got one foot in there already.  Up most of night with my back again  :( :(  Back to chiro tomorrow.  Groan.  Spending the day sorting out seedlings so at least something is getting done.   

I hear what you say about slugs and if slugs eat all my tatties I'll have to dust off me spade  ;D

[gavin]

Why not just double dig the 36" with manure, I can't see the labour saving bit

ROFL - cos I'd need a full size JCB, assisted by a pneumatic drill!  And that's for a single dig!

Hey - the lad a few plots down from me brought in one of the mini-JCBs at the weekend - and that's on a plot that's been cultivated for years ;D.


Seriously though - took me two hours to do a 9-10 foot lazy bed on Tuesday, hacked out of solid clay, couch grass, raspberry and brambles, and plum tree suckers.  If I'd thought to bring the seed packet over, I could have sown broad beans straight in.  Not bad for a pleasant spring afternoon.

And VERY different from the many, many more hours I spent removing the turf cover, single digging (in November to January - yuk), spreading manure, rotovating, digging again, and rotovating a similar size area.  Then, because the winter's been so mild, the clods are still ....ing great solid divots!  Completely unworkable - as yet!   And that's without going as deep as double-digging.

BUT - it's early days; proof of the pudding and all that.  Even so, I'm sorely tempted to go out at the weekend and do a couple more lazy beds - and then not need the bed that's proving so difficult.  Daft b....r, I am ???

All best - Gavin

PS  Am I being really daft - did I miss an offer there, Roy? ;D

[wardy]

Gavin    I don't think people with good soil can envisage just what it's like to garden on clay.  When it's wet it's bad enough but when it's dry it's like concrete.  What should be a bit of a job is a marathon on clay. It usually gives good rewards though.  I lost loads of perennials though and it does get soul destroying.  I did find that lots of plants did well, especially roses.  I also grew very good carrots funnily enough  ;D