Topic: Evidence that pruning vine wood by breaking causes less bleeding

[Vinlander]

I have just had an "opportunity" to test a long-held belief in the above. I've partially tested it before - safely and successfully pruning by breaking as late as February, but I didn't make cuts for comparison because I didn't want to risk the health of my vines.

I never dreamed I would be testing it in April, after several warm spells in March, but when my neighbour said he was replacing the garden fence I entirely forgot about my least favourite vine (King's Ruby) - I was more concerned to alert him to my peach tree that is currently in full flower on that boundary.

Anyway, I wasn't surprised or overly concerned that he had made cuts in wood up to 2cm thick (at the worst possible time of year) - I just set to work breaking the wood behind the cuts, being as brutal as necessary, often twisting and shredding the wood in order to complete the break.

The cuts had been bleeding for a day, and were still dripping sap that was cloudy with bacteria, and when I dried them with a tissue they were dripping again in 30-40 seconds.

After finishing all the breaks in about 15-20 minutes the only ones dripping were the last two, and they stopped a few minutes later.

I first encountered this technique when I read something in Brogdale Fruit News (or whatever it was called at the time) - at least 10 years ago - they said that German grafters had had started taking scions from cherry trees by breaking them off - and this had reduced the risk of silverleaf getting into the parent trees.

It seems obvious that vines and trees wouldn't still be here after millions of years, if collisions from large ambling herbivores gave them serious and progressive health problems. Especially vines -  which can fence off a path in a single season - but something like an elk or aurochs could walk right through them and hardly notice the obstruction.

There is also my own experience comparing razor cuts and paper cuts - the former hardly cause any pain but can bleed for ages, the latter are very rough cuts, hurt like hell but stop bleeding in as little as a minute.

QED.

PS. Apparently foresters nowadays routinely abuse the trunk of a tree around where a branch has been removed closely - this is the equivalent of hitting a razor cut with a hammer (which I'm not going to do), but opens the possibility that using a saw on a thick stem might be OK, but might be even better if you squash the cut end - maybe a few hammer blows and a jubilee clip would be a good idea?

[saddad]

Makes sense to me... I cut my vine late... and it bled for a while, but has recovered well and the buds are beginning to break..

[squeezyjohn]

I have no direct experience of this particular approach ... but I will say that I have seen too many experiences of "received wisdom" being worse or at best no better than alternative methods.  It seems that if we are told something with authority with enough repetition then the results on our behaviour is definitely affected ... it's as insidious as television advertising!

No dig is a great example of this ... it works ... all the evidence proves that, and the scientific thinking behind it is sound - but the number of gardeners just digging for the hell of it (and because that's what you do) is huge.

The looks I get putting my maincrop potatoes in before my earlies and then harvesting them towards the end of July from the old boys on my allotment would be funny if they weren't so derogatory!  But I don't get the blight in my tubers, I harvest in dry, clean soil, and the slugs don't attack like they do when the old boys leave theirs in until wet September like the books all say.

I think tearing off prunings might make sense ... the key thing is does it work for you?  If it does ... tell "received wisdom" to bugger off!

[Silverleaf]

I totally agree that things are so often done in a particular way just because they've always been done that way, not because there's any evidence that it's actually the best way.

And don't people just HATE it when you try out a new method? My dad had an allotment in the 80s and is convinced that if I don't smother my garden in pesticides and weedkiller I'll never produce anything, despite being proved wrong every year! Not to mention my preference for open-pollinated seeds and seed-saving when I could be buying expensive F1s every single year...

Yet come harvest time he gorges himself on my Telephone peas straight off the plant raving on about how good they are!

[Vinlander]

I should have added a dose of common sense to my post - I just got drunk on the whole business of taking other peoples ideas and experience in one or two related areas and adding what I call the "evolution test" (ie. organisms that have been around for millions of years can cope with anything that nature throws at them - except new stuff - usually this means us...).

Ideally you get what (I hope) is a useful generalisation about bending "the rules" - when you have to.

The accepted wisdom here is still wise - don't prune your grapevines except in midwinter - if you follow this I can assure you it is a lot easier (because you can use secateurs).

Unfortunately modern life has a way of interfering with scheduling, so if you prune later than January it's a good idea (I think) to prune by breaking.

It would be great if others could try the same experiment in April, but I don't recommend it - if you can live with an unruly vine for a year then do it - you can always, anytime, remove as much green stuff as you need to limit its vigour. On the other hand if you actually want to get rid of one then I'd be grateful for some confirmation of this method before you dig it up.

Cheers.