Topic: Rotavation on clay soil - the conditions are never right!

[George the Pigman]

My allotment is basically an old river bed! As a result the soil is still clayey despite the addition, over many years, of manure and compost.  I have a fairly powerful rotavator and am eager to turn it over to start planting but conditions never seem right. It is either too wet (even after a few days without rain) or, if we have a slightly longer dry spell, it rapidly turns into concrete. Anyone had a similar frustrating experience or know a way around the problem. The way things are going this year my spuds will never get planted!!

[galina]

Absolutely the same here George.  But with a coarse pre-dig the rotavator works better.  I take what surface I get, which is hardly ever the magic fine crumb.  Basically I use it very little for that reason.  Spuds don't need a fine crumb, so a hand dig is better anyway.  If the soil around the spuds gets like concrete and earthing up is near impossible, well that's what grass cuttings are for.  When I get less able I'll be using straw beds on top of the soil and Yeopode (crowbar holes filled with compost and planted into). I now find the rotavator difficult on my hands anyway, but so is digging, there isn't much in it. 

My allotment is basically an old river bed! As a result the soil is still clayey despite the addition, over many years, of manure and compost.  I have a fairly powerful rotavator and am eager to turn it over to start planting but conditions never seem right. It is either too wet (even after a few days without rain) or, if we have a slightly longer dry spell, it rapidly turns into concrete. Anyone had a similar frustrating experience or know a way around the problem. The way things are going this year my spuds will never get planted!!

[BarriedaleNick]

I gave up on the idea of rotavating my London clay when I hired one for a weekend.  I couldn't get it in the d**n ground and it just ran over the surface.  It did work once I had dug it all over once but the result wasn't worth the effort.

Now I just have raised beds and I pile everything on top.  A light forking over before hand goes some way to getting the manure/compost into the clay but it takes tons of organic matter and years to get it to resemble anything like a fine crumb.

[Deb P]

Similar story to Nick really.Our site used to be a brick works....I dug out lumps of clay you could've made a pot out of! I used claybreaker pellets and calcified seaweed on it every year, plus added lots of mushroom compost, and it is slowly (10 years on) looking better and behaves better every year I grow on it. I did try and use my Mantis tiller on it a couple of years ago, but felt it was just forming a hard pan so haven't used it since. I've grown a different crop on it every year and it now gets forked over and has a winter mulch added, I don't do any deep digging at all.

[Silverleaf]

I have horrible clay too so I feel for you! I like to joke that there's about 2 days of the year when it's possible to dig...

... so I don't. Raised beds all the way. I put in tons of cheap sandy topsoil initially, and every year I add more manure and compost.

I did put in some new beds this year, and had a little experimental dig in the base of them. No good. It just comes up in huge lumps. Hit them with the fork and they just turn into flatter lumps! Loads of worms though, so I'll take that as a good sign.

[BarriedaleNick]

Similar story to Nick really.Our site used to be a brick works....I dug out lumps of clay you could've made a pot out of!

My friend and neighbour does just that!  She has a plot on London clay and makes excellent ceramics out of it.  I even bought one of her creations!

[ancellsfarmer]

Definitely believe you need the extra horsepower, not from rotovating or ploughing but from the other end of the horse!

[rollingrock]

It sounds like you need a trencher instead of tiller.

[Tee Gee]

My heart goes out to you guys!

I tried a rotovator once to turn over my plot and it was the hardest day I ever spent a  on the plots but for the opposite reasons to you guys.

My soil is fine to loamy and what I found with the rotovator was it was constantly getting bogged down particularly when I had to turn it around to make another pass down the bed. To explain my beds are 5-6ft wide meaning it was a tight turning circle, which on reflection would have been worse if I had bordered my beds with an edging of some sort.

My suggestion to you guys is dig/ rotovate your plots in the autumn leaving the ground surface quite rough to let the frost into it, then in spring with a bit of luck your soil will only require a bit of tickling up with the tiller.

I have always used this method and it works for me, so much so nowadays I can push my spade a full spit deep without having to use my foot to push the spade into the soil, but I must add this will not happen over night , it has taken me over twenty years.

[galina]

Sorry Tee Gee, doesn't work like that.  Because of the amount of precipitation over winter, which does not drain so easily (and often sits as large puddles on the surface for weeks and sometimes the whole plot is under water) anything dug does compact hard.  A bit of a tickle in spring would be nice, but it is not what I see here.   

My heart goes out to you guys!


My suggestion to you guys is dig/ rotovate your plots in the autumn leaving the ground surface quite rough to let the frost into it, then in spring with a bit of luck your soil will only require a bit of tickling up with the tiller.

[galina]

Definitely believe you need the extra horsepower, not from rotovating or ploughing but from the other end of the horse!

Massively thick mulches of grass are about the only thing that works here.  We used to have access to the rear end stuff, but the local gentlemen farmers now want 1.50 for a bag, so that's out.  But where I had a thick mulch it is easier to dig.  Put 3 inches of grass on in autumn and by spring you can't even see it anymore.  I have no idea where that stuff goes but it does help the heaviness of the soil. 

[rollingrock]

this might be helpful on how did properly
how dig for victory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Gs7Vik75k

[Silverleaf]

Definitely believe you need the extra horsepower, not from rotovating or ploughing but from the other end of the horse!

Massively thick mulches of grass are about the only thing that works here.  We used to have access to the rear end stuff, but the local gentlemen farmers now want 1.50 for a bag, so that's out.  But where I had a thick mulch it is easier to dig.  Put 3 inches of grass on in autumn and by spring you can't even see it anymore.  I have no idea where that stuff goes but it does help the heaviness of the soil. 

Find yourself a stable, they are often only too happy for you take away as much as you want. Otherwise it literally piles up until they have to pay someone to take it away!

I mulch with grass clippings and it has made a bit of difference to my beds.

[galina]

Nice video  .........    definitely  n o t  clay soil they are digging.   

Love the 'stereo' dig 

PS  I broke my 8 year old Spears and Jackson Alu and Stainless Steel fork that came with a ten year guarantee.  Rusted right through, didn't know stainless could rust.  But the good thing is that although the shop where I bought it, is no longer there, they are honouring the guarantee and a new fork will be here in a couple of weeks.  Borrowing MIL's edging fork atm (Lady's fork) and it is so tiny!

[ancellsfarmer]

Nice video  .........    definitely  n o t  clay soil they are digging.   

Love the 'stereo' dig 

PS  I broke my 8 year old Spears and Jackson Alu and Stainless Steel fork that came with a ten year guarantee.  Rusted right through, didn't know stainless could rust.  But the good thing is that although the shop where I bought it, is no longer there, they are honouring the guarantee and a new fork will be here in a couple of weeks.  Borrowing MIL's edging fork atm (Lady's fork) and it is so tiny!

Stainless steel can rust, it all depends on the material used and its nickel ratio. While selling pots & pans forty odd years ago, justified the price with the broad statement re not rusting. Shortly discovered the customers husband, who accompanied her, was then the Chief Metallurgalist of British Aerospace!! Have tried not to make an absolute statement about anything ever again !

[johhnyco15]

parsnip and carrot seed bed rotorvated   today may take more than one post to show pics   ok here goes pic one

[johhnyco15]

pic no 2 all sowed up

[johhnyco15]

pic 3 all finished had to do it all in one day as the cats love the fresh tilled earth

[johhnyco15]

Nice video  .........    definitely  n o t  clay soil they are digging.   

Love the 'stereo' dig 

PS  I broke my 8 year old Spears and Jackson Alu and Stainless Steel fork that came with a ten year guarantee.  Rusted right through, didn't know stainless could rust.  But the good thing is that although the shop where I bought it, is no longer there, they are honouring the guarantee and a new fork will be here in a couple of weeks.  Borrowing MIL's edging fork atm (Lady's fork) and it is so tiny!

as i have a bad back i always use a ladys fork and a ladies spade and hand dig the whole plot 3 times a year winter spring and autumn i wont leave home without them lol

[galina]

as i have a bad back i always use a ladys fork and a ladies spade and hand dig the whole plot 3 times a year winter spring and autumn i wont leave home without them lol

I really noticed how much slower the smaller fork was.  But it definitely kept me going in the meantime. 

Well a Spear and Jackson replacement fork has just arrived!  That's brilliant, pretty fast too and ......... would you believe it? ........ the packaging says that it comes with a ten year guarantee.   As the fork is definitely the most hard working tool here, I really missed it.         

To get back to topic, it will be used to do coarse digging before rotavating every time, but mostly just on its own.