Topic: Apple trees - are columns my best option?

[NightWish]

This is the year I'm actually going to plant apple trees, rather than just think about it!

I've got a an area about 2.50 x 2.50; the allotments are relatively sheltered, I'm interested in growing as many varieties as possible, rather than maxiising yield.

I was thinking that a square of 9 colummular trees would be the best option (planting 3 a year, I think 3 trees is as much as I cope with at a time). 

Would I be better doing cordons or something else?  I'm really now getting in a muddle thinking about it all.

Thank you for any advice.

[galina]

Do you mean 2.5 metres x 2.5 metres?  Not a large area.  How about one decent sized family apple tree? They come grafted with several varieties on one tree.   Can the trees overhang outside the area?  If you need to keep inside the area I think the maximum number would be 2 trees.   

[NightWish]

Yes, 2.5m x 2.5m, not including a pathway all the way around.  Chris Bowers claims that their Supercolumn apples can be grown two foot apart, I was thinking of those.

[Tee Gee]

I more or less agree with Galina 2.5 metres  or in old money about 8ft square, is not very much at best I would say four trees.

With nine trees the middle three would suffer in terms of shade cast by the other six trees (3 either side)

This is a picture I took in 2011 where the trees are roughly 2 metres apart, they now touch other and they stretch to around 4 metres from the first to last trees.



OK the literature will tell you they can be planted as close as 60cm (2ft) apart but that is only if you stick to a proper pruning routine.

Failure to do this will mean your trees will go the same way as those in the picture.

This year I have harvested well over a hundred weight of apples from these three trees, something you are unlikely to get from columnar grown trees where I think at best in a good year you might harvest around ten pounds of apples per tree.

This in my book is not a good return for the amount of care and attention you will have to give them, whereas I only prune the new growth back once a year ( around Aug/Sept) and get loads of apples each year, providing I get a good pollination period.

Some years it can be quite cold and there are no pollinators about when my trees are in flower, resulting in a poorer harvest.

You will probably face similar conditions from time to time and your normal harvest would be even smaller.

If I was faced with your situation I would only go for three trees laid laid roughly 1.5-2 metres apart in triangular /echelon formation.

I hope the experience I have had with my trees will help you in deciding what you will ultimately do with the trees you are about to plant....Tg

[NightWish]

I have been remiss in thanking you; sorry, a bit of a domestic crisis.

I'm now dithering more than ever.  Am thinking three trees as suggested.  Then next year move the compost bins and plant another one in their place.

Thank you again.

[johhnyco15]

how about three espalier trees these give great veld and look great too

[squeezyjohn]

If you buy bare-rooted whips (the cheapest grafted apple trees) you can make your own espaliers if you look it up on youtube and are prepared for a few years of fairly radical pruning!  I got my espaliers going that way and it makes me boil the way garden centres charge nearly £50 for a pot bound pre-trained espalier when it's likely to have problems being transplanted.

You can train them around corners etc. too if you have a particular space to fill.  They are very productive once they get going.

[johhnyco15]

 i always make my own espaliers its really easy

[Russell]

I have a rather different aim with my apple trees, I want to get as much as possible of my crop to be top quality apples. When I started out, I wanted like you to have lots of varieties but I found over the years that I was always on the edge of overcrowding so my trees sometimes cropped biennially (actually quite often), and that much of the fruit did not get its full ration of sun light and air and was therefore of poor quality (depends on how you set your standards) and vulnerable to diseases (scab, canker).
About three years ago I became so totally frustrated with a 12 year old row of cordon apples planted at 2 ft 6 in spacings that I dug up alternate plants so that I now have half the number of trees at 5 ft spacing which give twice the total crop both in quantity and quality. Example James Grieve 8 ft high yield 120 flawless apples.
I did not put the discarded trees through the shredder but replanted them in a new better-spaced row and they are recovering quite well (apart from one near-death experience), producing as much crop as before i.e. not much but sending out new shoots which give hope for the future.
If I was starting out again I would go for dwarf pyramid trees target final dimensions 7 ft high 7 ft across in 7 years because there is no work of training and tying up. That still leaves quite enough to do what  with summer and winter pruning, several lots of spraying, thinning, and last but not least picking and storing.

[NightWish]

Russell - which rootstock are your trees on?

[Duke Ellington]

When I started my allotment I wanted apple and pear trees and decided that cordons would be best. I bought my eight trees from Lidl which was my first mistake but they were so cheap. We planted and trained them as cordons and I must say they look really good but yields are very poor. The other problem ...not all of my cordons have produced fruit. So this year we are getting rid of my cordons as a lot of time is spent pruning trees that do not produce a lot of fruit. I wish I had put in two trees and kept them at a manageable size. Oh well! Iam still learning 7 years later!

[Digeroo]

Country file had an interesting bit about fruit trees this week and showed how the commercial growers were maximizing crops with special pruning methods.

It was interesting but annoyingly short on specifics.

[Russell]

Reply to Nightwish, sorry to be so slow, I use only MM106 rootstock. It is physically strong and good at finding food. For some strong growing apple varieties e.g. Bramley I would not recommend it because the pruning is too much of a challenge but for such as Fiestas, Lord Lambournes, Brownlees Russets or Sturmers I find it good.

[Russell]

I have just called up Countryfile on the iPlayer following Digeroos note. The way modern commercial apples are grown is very different to the traditional amateur style in back garden or allotment.
What can be seen (and paused, thanks to the iPlayer) is that all parts of all the trees are reachable from the ground, shaped with centre leaders, are highly productive, and yield top quality fruit by fully exposing all the fruit to sun light and air.
The programme made mention of M9 as a rootstock, but did not say how picky M9 is about having the right soil. A farmer may have more choice of site than an amateur grower.
The programme also showed us some new apple varieties but it may be long time before they are made available to the amateur. Now that formerly government funded research establishments have to find their own money, they do not any longer have what used to be described as a public duty. That is, the public duty under which M9 was developed.

[ajb]

I've got 2 apple trees on m9 planted near a conifer hedge. They are growing slowly but well.  They've been very productive for their size. One is Jumbo a cooking apple and the other is sunset. I have some columns on m27 that I confess to not staying on top of the pruning and they're not much like columns now.

[davholla]

Have you considered a balerina tree?  This one has really nice fruits best apples I have ever tried
http://www.orangepippin.com/apples/bolero

[Vinlander]

Choice of variety is key - and this is one of the main reasons why ballerinas are for punters only. Cordons give you choice and the pruning is very simple - no trouble - especially at a time when you've no other jobs on.

But first you need to decide what kind of apples you like - the ones in the shops are all rubbish by comparison.

If you like soft sweet apples without any zing than you'd probably be happier just buying pies from Mr Kipling and saving yourself the trouble of going to the greengrocer.

If you like zingy apples then there's nothing in the greengrocer that can compare to Ashmead's Kernel which has an AGM from the RHS because it is the ultimate enthusiasts apple without being troublesome like Cox.

Prominent in the excellence list but at the other end of the flavour spectrum, Egremont Russet is everything that makes real apples different - nutty and delicious but slightly dry with a hint of pear. These can occasionally be found in the best greengrocers and markets but beware of being sold "Bertrand" - which is a russeted Golden "Delicious" from France - a flavour vacuum on a stalk...

To please kids or anyone else who likes the "look" then grow William Crump - it's red but it has real flavour - and can hold its own against Ashmeads by being just different enough to really enjoy.

Cheers.