Topic: Digging dry soil

[caroline7758]

The soil at my plot is dry as a bone on the top few inches. I argue that it's not worth digging until we get some rain because a) it's harder work and b) it'll bring the moist soil underneath to the top and then that will dry out too. My helper says if he digs the weed roots to the top and they dry out and die then it's worth it. What do you think?

[Robert_Brenchley]

Dig it. You'll have other things to do later in the season.

[galina]

Dig it. You'll have other things to do later in the season.

Agree.  However, if you can, cover with grass cuttings or other mulch to stop the drying out.

[pumkinlover]

Hoe , hoe, hoe 

and just dig out any perennials.

[davyw1]

If you are putting brassicas in then i would not dig it as you will take away the compactness of the soil i would just hoe it and let it remain compact and rake i in any fertilzers you may use.

[Pescador]

Why do you feel you want to dig?  If you have annual weeds then just hoe them off, and for dandelions, docks,etc dig them out individually.
I think a lot of people dig because they think they have to, rather than thinking about do they need to.
If your soil is not compacted, and you're not incorporating manure, then why do you need to dig?
I'm not an advocate of "No Dig", but I can't see any reason for  doing work that is not required.

[caroline7758]

I have a lot of couch, bindweed and creeping buttercup, none of which can be dug out individually, unfortunately.

[grannyjanny]

Caroline, we have couch, bindweed & horsetail & we don't dig .

[Nora42]

I have been out digging the plots that I intend to give to the kids to grow things in on our new plot they are very dry clay lumps and someone has added pea shingle , so now it's all clay lumps and shingle - it crunches when you put the spade in.
we have been tipping barrow loads of compost on to the beds and this is the result after digging.

Nora

[galina]

Nora42,

Looks a bit like our soil.  Over the last 20 odd years it had a lot of organic matter put on, but it is still lumpy.  Doesn't know the meaning of 'crumbly'.  Last year there was almost no opportunity to autumn dig as it was too wet and now I am also struggling to get the digging finished here.  Way too wet up to very recently - and has now set like concrete.  But I am on top of it with a lot of work.  Several tonnes of sand would probably improve the structure.  At least it is good fertile soil.  Doesn't sound like pea shingle helps, but probably doesn't do any harm.

Takes a lot of work to get it right for fine seeds, rotovating helps.  I usually have to dig twice, first to remove weeds and leave huge clods, second to reduce clod size, then run the rotovator over and mix organic matter in.  Then a bit more rake work if I want it finer.

Tried hoe-ing the bit that was dug late September, before the garden was flooded over winter(where the Sharpo potatoes were last year).  Good suggestion pumpkinlover and davyw1 - I have broccoli to plant out.  But even that was nearly impossible and I only managed to 'scratch' the top half an inch.  Underneath the hard crust is still a lot of water.  This morning's rain should have helped soften the surface.  I'll go over it with the hoe again, then plant the broccoli if it is possible.  I could not hoe the bits at all that hadn't been dug since last spring.

I'm afraid that is just the reality of living with heavy clay soil.

[squeezyjohn]

I think that no-dig is a very noble and sensible idea.

However ... there is just no way that it can work in every situation.  My plot was taken on absolutely covered on every square inch with established perennials.  Nettles, docks, couch and something I don't know the name of have created a woven carpet of thick roots across the whole place (with a smattering of horsetails).  Their roots go down in to the water table and have so much energy that they just come through any thickness of mulch or carpet you put down in the end.

I've been trying to be non-aggressive with the digging - but the beds only succeed if most of these roots are removed first and you certainly can't just pull them out!  My soil too has been compacted by being very wet and then baked by the sun - and anything I didn't manage to get dug over in April has turned to concrete.

I still think it's worth doing now though if you can.  I think potatoes could probably cope with rough digging (I hope so!) - at least that's half the job done - you'll need to turn the soil over to get whatever crop you manage to produce out and then it will be so much easier next year.  Hopefully the showers forecast for the next few days will also make it easier to break up.

As for me - I'm looking forward to "no-digging" in the future ... but I have no option but to dig it over at leas once to conquer the space from the nettles.

 

[Nora42]

Galina it is defo heavy clay soil and really bad on these two beds, the previous tenant has told me that the first four beds have been well  manured over the last two years and the soil isn't too bad there .  think it was him who added the pea shingle.
 He was also a great fan of rotovating and gave the plot up because he could not keep up with the couch grass. go figure why it is every where if you rotovate!
I have spent the last 3 week digging out patches of the stuff by hand  and I'm not finished yet but faint heart and all that.

getting the kids beds to a fine tilth may be difficult but we will try either that or grow chunky veg.

very interesting thread this as I have cabbages and Brussels sprout waiting to go in , if you look at the picture you can see a flat bed that has had the lawn of grass skimmed off, to the right of the current bush, this was next on the list to be dug but having read the advice about hoeing and not digging for brassicas I am more than happy, I will have to dig a bit of it for the leeks I guess but half a bed is easy to dig.
next to the bed with the pile of wood is the squash bed currently laid  to lawn, thankfully there are no brambles or much couch to speak of so that's the last bed to be done. Not easy this allotment malarkey but I am loving turning a scruffy patch into a presentable one and so are my neighbours.

it has lightly rained today in North London so I am  glad I spent yesterday digging in compost manure and spent chicken litter into the beds it may help soften them.
and Adrian my partner has said it will get better through use and growing stuff - he says he's not a gardener!

Nora

[caroline7758]

Rain was forecast here this afternoon but no sign of it yet. Forecast again tomorrow afternoon so fingers crossed!