Topic: New plot: help with layout and where to start (photos)

[handsfull]

Hello :) We've just got a plot in East London, 6x26m ish (went on the waiting list when my son was born, he's now 7!).

It came a bit out of the blue, so while I'm waiting for allotment books to arrive, I was wondering if anyone here would be kind enough to have a look at some photos of the plot.

I guess my first question is: do I keep the existing layout (made a little spreadsheet of it with growveg.com) or start clearing it completely? I know nothing about what was grown here before, just some v old plants coming up in some places.

Anyway, here are the photos: http://s251.photobucket.com/user/cmccaughren/library/Allotment

Thanks in advance,

Clare

[Tee Gee]

You have certainly picked a very apt "user name" because your hands are going to be quite full for the forseeable future!

Anyhow welcome to A4A

Personally i would forget the past and get the plot to your liking!

The bit i can't understand is why you have had to wait seven years, the whole site looks generally unkept and has been unattended for a number of years, meaning they should have got you on years ago!

I know on our site the plots would never be allowed to get in that state before the previous plot holder would be sent packing, meaning a new tenant would have minimal work to do when they took on the plot!

Anyhow! Back to your question,i think the best thing I can do at this stage is to direct you to an article along with its related links that I  wrote for such an occasion and it is here;

http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Allotments/Allotments.htm

Once you have read that then I think you will have a better idea as to how to tackle your plot!

A word of advice; tackle it a bit at a time,

If you overdo it you might cause your self an injury and then find that you can't do anything!

Look at your plot as a " long term" thing

I have been on my plot for around twenty five years and I am still trying to keep on top of it. 

[grannyjanny]

Tee Gee is so right about not overdoing things. Ours is smaller than yours, 18'x56' & when we were working on it we left before it felt to much & not fed up with it. OH double dug it & he worked with his back to what needed doing, IYSWIM. Above all enjoy what you're doing, take lots of before pictures. That really helped us to see the improvement as we went along.

[steveg1966]

I would firsly clear all the rubbish so you know what you are working to also at some stage you will want to consider a polytunnel/greenhouse so work out where that needs to go.I would get the raised beds ready for this season as you will be able to grow something.When I first got mine I drew a plan up and worked roughly a quarter at a time and found that everything seemed to come together very quickly.Have a look at these videos on you tube they are very good.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL84138F977456FA48

http://www.youtube.com/user/clairesallotment/videos?sort=da&view=0&flow=grid

[two sheds]

Where in East London are you? I am at Empress Avenue, if you are there you can get lots of advice....anyway as said before dont overdo it...cover some over and work the rest

[handsfull]

Ha, the username relates to my four kids (can't leave the house without hearing it!) but I guess it does work with the allotment too, unfortunately.

I don't think the council are on top of things, to say the least. There are some good things about the site - it's active, there's a swap shop and a work party every Sunday morning, and loads of horse manure from nearby stables. But the site is HUGE (2-300 plots?), so maybe difficult to stay on top of.

Tee Gee, that site looks great, will definitely have a good read. Thanks for posting it.

A bit at a time, little and often, take a long term view. grannyjanny, thanks for the tip about leaving before it gets too much. Will try and bear all that in mind.

steveg thanks for the video links. Can see how YouTube is going to be invaluable.

twosheds - am in Nutter Lane! So close!

I thought I would cut down the brambles before they get any worse. Then clear the rest of the rubbish, then see what's in the compost bins and get that started. Then thought maybe would get something planted in one of the contained beds so that there is at least some greenery that's supposed to be there. Then...

[davyw1]

We all have different ways about starting to clear an allotment.
After getting ris of the rubbish.
The first is, you are there to break its back its not there to break yours.
I would look at where i can put potatoes in, give it a turn over shaking of all the soil you can from the weeds and grass which you can bag up and stash out of the way. You can work on any weeds that come through before and after the potatoes appear, the rest you can get out when you lift them.
Once you have got that area done continue digging back for a veg patch, but try and get all the weeds and grass roots out, you can always go back to it with the hoe before and after the plants are in.
Just continue on digging and weeding put in what you will eat, beetroot letuce swede/turnip etc.
Dont worry about paths, crop rotation, polytunells greenhouses or raised beds, you have a whole year to think about it, plan it and get sound advice on what to do and how to do it. Stick with the basics and get the plot sorted first.

[two sheds]

I had a plot in nutter lane many moons ago but it was right on the edge of the roding and it kept flooding! So raised beds the way to go, although depends whcih bit you are on....don't forget to come over to Empress for the manure, we are lucky to be next door to the stables...I did the lasagne bed thing and it worked for me..cardboard is your friend lol

Julie

[handsfull]

The first is, you are there to break its back its not there to break yours.

Lol, great quote.

Julie, I chose the plot I did because it seemed the least waterlogged out of all of them. Lots of the plots had beds with kind of moats around them. Thanks for the offer of manure but the stables delivers to us too. Off to look up lasagne beds :)

[chriscross1966]

Have a clear up and dump the rubbish. At the moment the plastic sheet is not rubbish, it's weed supressant.... then I'd go for the low-hanging fruit.... those raised beds look like they've been cultivated until recently so dig through them , if it's still too cold to get stuff in then move the plastic on the the bits you've dug and dig through where it was... then get on with the rest of it.... Nice to have a shed, but remember that any sort of a lock on it is pointless, so don't leave anything on site that you can't bear to lose... but it's nice to have a place out of the weather ... THere are as many ways of laying out a plot as there are plotholders... I favour a big single patch with compost bins at one end and a path up each edge and just plant what I want in big rows or patches.... my next door plot is setup as a courtyard garden just with vegetables in it.... we're both envious of each others plots, I love the idea of something that pretty , he loves the idea of othe enormous amount of food I get form mine... I've only just finished last years onions and I've got tons of veg I froze fresh last year still int he freezer.... I'd aim to try and get some digging done this weekend... certainly get the beds through and put to bed as it were.... Lidl are doing weed supressant fabric ATM....

[Paulines7]

Welcome to A4A, handsfull. 

I don't have an allotment but have 6 fenced off plots one of which has several rows of raspberries and a strawberry bed.  I rotate my vegetables in the other 5 plots.  The whole area was full of coarse grass, similar to your allotment when we first decided to make some vegetable beds 10 years ago but we tackled each section a little at a time.  The grass has mainly gone now but we still get problems with nettles and bindweed.  Fortunately I have chickens and I let them into some of the plots over the winter and they get rid of some of the weeds. 

It will be hard work, getting rid of all that grass but just do a little at a time.  The raised beds look as though they won't need so much work so, hopefully, you will be able to bring them into production this year.  Good luck, handsfull, and here's hoping that we have a drier and warmer summer than last year so you will have a good harvest.   

[Robert_Brenchley]

That plastic will be suppressing weeds to some extent, but it's going to have masses of couch roots running underneath; I've been there. Leave it in place until you're ready to dig those sections. Start at one end, dig steadily, and keep everything else either covered or mown.

[Digeroo]

Couch is a bit of a problem to shift.  I had a metre wide strip of it.  I started off trying to get it all out but found it too hard so in the end I rough dug it.  ie just turned it over not worrying about the couch making sure nothing green was visible.   Then I put in broad beans and kept it very very well hoed.  Then when they were finishing I put in sweet corn, again any sign of grass was hoed off very very quickly and very frequently.  The following year I put in potatoes, again very speedy with the hoe.  After about 18 months the couch gave up.  Not sure this method will work for a large area too much hoeing needed.

I am not convinced the tree is a fruiter.  My money is on ash or maybe elderberry.  Difficult from a pic.  Can you take a pic of the tip end of the branch.  Is it pointed and black?   If it is a fruiter it will flower as soon as the weather cheers up.  No flowers no fruit. 

[squeezyjohn]

I'll certainly say it's in better condition than mine was when I took it on a year and a half ago!  At least the weeds aren't up to your armpits and above!

I'm 99% sure that tree is elder - so it will make fruits, but is probably not worth keeping as there are millions of elder trees in the british hedgerows ... you will find it pretty hard to kill - they are very vigorous.  If you do chop it - keep all the tall straight 2nd year sticks (woody not green) - they make good canes.

As for clearing - it's a little at a time as everyone is saying.  Little victories are much easier to tackle than grand designs!

Best of luck

Squeezy

[handsfull]

Thanks for all the replies!

I've already noticed that all the locks are broken on the sheds. Mine is quite full already, lots of tools (although quite old and rusty), pots and bits, old wellies full of cobwebs. I guess it means that it hasn't been "raided". As/when I buy my own tools I won't keep them there. My Grandad is selling his house and has said I can have all his gardening stuff, which is a bonus.

I have chickens too, and have read before about people taking them to the allotments. Does that really work? Could give it a go. I think their bedding and poo will be good for compost.

I will take better pictures of the tree. It would be fine if it was an elder - not so many hedgerows in East London! I know you can use the berries and the flowers.

There were a couple of plots that were 100% brambles, taller than I am. It definitely could have been a lot worse.

I went there again today. Note to self - don't take all the children at once! My 7 year old is a great help - cutting brambles, digging up some old veg, measuring etc. But my girls (5 and 3) couldn't really do anything yet, will be better when there's sowing or harvesting (ha ha) to be done. The baby will probably like sleeping in the outdoors if I catch her at the right time.

Even so, managed to clear lots of the brambles around the shed, and moved some rubbish into a pile at the back. It's good to have even a small clear space - will put a bench or a couple of plastic chairs there when I come across them.

Thanks again for all the advice :)

[gavinjconway]

Hi Handsfull - welcome..  For a bit of inspiration take a look at my blog site to see what I did in my first year. Not much reading  - mainly photos. www.gavinconway.net

[handsfull]

Hi Gavin, great blog! I like that you are able to have a fence around your patch. I will have to remember to take lots of photos so I can see progress (as and when it does progress!).

[Russell]

I also think your fruit tree may be an elderberry, and I don't myself have much use for elderberries, what with raspberries, blackberries and three colours of currants. However all elderberry bushes are not created equal, some are fit for producing elderflower champagne, and others (the vast majority) sadly are not. I like to take a quart bottle down to my vegetable plot on a hot sticky August afternoon.

[handsfull]

Sounds good! I want to grow all that fruit too - at least something the children will eat. Turnips, swede, beetroot, cabbage (unless soup), not so much :(

[Digeroo]

We have huge numbers of elderberries round here.  I make elderflower cordial, or just take a flower head and made tea with it.  Taste very dependent on weather conditions, they go off best quite quickly.   

I think with all those young children you will have your handsfull!!  I am not convinced children particularly like allotments.   I think you need to find ways to minimise effort.  Perhaps lots of soft fruit and plenty of mulching is the way to go.

There is a family with four children near me, and I think allotmenting with them is a huge challenge.  Very difficult to get away from it all when you take it all with you.