Topic: Why do I have no luck with root veg?

[antipodes]

I really am starting to have doubts about this. I finally got a few decent radishes in April/May thanks to a lot of spring rain. I sowed Snowball turnip at the same time and although the leaves are gorgeous, the roots are still largely undeveloped. They have been in for several weeks now. I was wondering, how long will they take before they are ready? And why are the leaves so healthy but they are not "bulbing" underneath?

I have little luck with root veg. Carrots I gave up on, couldn't get them to progress past a couple of centimetres high, beetroot is a struggle - last year they started off ok but got eaten by voles :( I used to have luck with parsnips but last year they failed (I was a bit late with them). Not to be perturbed, I have once again sown beets (Boltardy and Bikoles) and parsnip (White Gem).  But what could I do to improve the progress of my root veg? The root part seems to have trouble developing. For info the soil is sandy loam, quite rich in organic matter and looks pretty good to me!!! Potatoes and alliums and generally brassica do very well for me, I don't always have luck with lettuce . What does this all mean???

[goodlife]

It could all mean that you are bit heavy handed with nitrogen based fertilizer/manure??
When you grow roots..if they get too much N..they just grow lush tops and very little root.
Something like radishes don't need any feed at all..they make best 'roots' on fairly poor soil.

Other reason why I'm thinking of 'too much N' is as your brassicas are doing well..they like/need good amount of it..and potatoes are another greedy crop too.

[chriscross1966]

Yeah fertiliser can be a curse as much as a blessing...

[davyw1]

Turnips are a 60 to 80 day growing crop which require to be kept moist at all times for the turnip bulb to grow to maturity. If they are allowed to dry out then they can either go woody, go to seed or not develop
So are you keeping them moist.

Carrots are another crop that require to be kept moist at all times from the time of putting the seeds in, They grow best in raised beds, but one of the factors for the root not developing  is the way the seed is planted. When you put the seed into the drill they need the finest of covering IE three times the the thickness of the seed, for carrots that is not a lot.

If you have been doing the above then my suggestion would be to make up your own mix and grow carrots in tubs boxes, pots etc with a depth of 24".

[chriscross1966]

To get "guaranteed" carrots try sowing the seed in toilet-roll tubes pushed into a 24-cell moduleKeep the propagator lid on until they're up, a low-powered propagator on an indoor windowsill is a good place once the tender veg is out of the way... then pot on into big/deep plots (or plant out into the earth, protect from root-fly with barrier mesh or height ... you only need two or three seeds per module and if they're maincrops reduce that to the biggest seedling before you plant out.... DId this last year and was drowning in carrots after some disappointing attempts previously.... works for parsnips too... you tend to be limited to a carrot not much longer than the tube was, a lot of them will go hairy beyond that but I didn't care...

[peanuts]

I sympathise with your problems in growing root veg this year.  I am struggling too, with several failures.  We have had a sudden very hot and dry spell, that makes our soil rock hard on the surface.  So the carrots I sowed (probably too deeply reading below!) never came up apart from a couple.  The parsnips that I started successfully in cardboard tubes, have started to fail once planted out, probably cos they were too young to cope with the hot sun.  The healthy-looking beetroot plants I bought and planted out three weeks ago, have started to disappear and look as if they won't make it . . . . .Radishes are there, but not filling out yet.  Very poor germination of rocket and coriander, must re-sow some.
 Still, looking on the bright side the potatoes look OK, the peas look wonderful, in full flower, and the first French beans are coming up now.  The garlic looks quite good too!

[Deb P]

I never had great success with carrots until I used pelleted seeds. I now buy Franchies carrot seed tapes and pellets and they have never failed for me, so they might be worth a try for you. I also just earth up carrots and parsnips once they get going, I never bother to fleece them to keep off carrot root fly and they don't seem to succumb.

[pg]

Is your air temperature (lucky enough) getting warm early in the sowing season? Just wondering if this might be checking their growth - too warm can be as much as acurse as too cool.

[antipodes]

oh heavens lots of things there that I never would have looked at! For temperature, in general we are about 2 weeks in advance here on the UK - e.g my toms and beans are already outside. But I would start roots off earlier, in April, so the temperature should be OK.

Now, I don't add any fertiliser, or just a few granules of multi-source organic once things have been in a while and need a boost. However I do add 1.5 cubic metres of manure (cow) in winter. That doesn't seem a lot to me and I try to put roots in places where I have had no, or almost no manure.

Unfortunately I cannot be doing carrots in loo roll holders etc, I live in a small flat and it's just not possible. I tried everything for 4 seasons: growing largely in sand, growing under fleece (we don't get the carrot fly here, or at least I have never heard anyone speak of it), and nothing worked. Which is why I stopped trying because the money's worth of seed wasn't worth it.  However I very much like beetroot and would like to succeed a little with that.

Is there anything I can do now to stop the turnips making greenery and get them to make roots instead? They shopuld really be ready about now. We have had a heck of a lot of rain in April and May so for once the moisture conditions should have been ideal. It's funny

[pg]

Cow manure could be the answer! Strong stuff as I know from putting it on my lottie one year - it don't have hang around.

Perhaps leave a small patch un-dunged next time & plant there? Perhaps combine with turnips need for moisture and sow in a shady bit? You could also try sowing in the autumn and let them sort themselves out over the winter, or even deliberately let the leafy ones go to seed and let the seed drop and see what turns up. I've always found (no-deliberate) self-seeded stuff always does well - like my tomatoes!

[chriscross1966]

Modern F1 monogerm beetroot is a fabulous thing... Sow  a triple row at one-inch spacings in 1.5 inch spaced row... first thinning is for salad leaves, second gets you baby roots, adn then leave the rest for maincrop aiming for a gap of around 6-8 inches... or module start them,, I've had great success with Renova and Monorubra.... will be sowing mine early June I expect, same tiem as the savoy cabbages....

[davyw1]

I dont see the point in setting away carrots and prarsnips in toilet rolls when you are not going to get a true result and i think i would be disapointed with myself if i was pulling up forked roots.
Still if your happy with what your getting  ie enough to put in a pan then i suppose thats good enough.
I know i have put this method on before but it realy does work.
Make your drill, water it then put your seeds in, cover with dry compost and place lengths of wood over held down by bricks, then go back 21 days later and see the result. the germination may be even quicker if you have the warmth

My parsnips


My Carrots

[peanuts]

Antipodes, can't you buy beetroot plants in the market or local garden shops, in modules/pots ready to plant out, where you are?  As I said, I have little success in sowing in the open ground as the earth crusts and gets too hard in the sun here. (Although I will try davyw1's method definitely, next time.
So for beetroot I bought about 5 weeks ago little plants in pots.  They get set back a little at the beginning, but now they are growing again, and they will produce good beet, reliably. 

[antipodes]

Antipodes, can't you buy beetroot plants in the market or local garden shops, in modules/pots ready to plant out, where you are?

I guess so, but I would like a lot of beetroot  ;D  ;D  ;D Maybe I need to add a lot of compost to that ground? Or fleece it???

Davy I am a bit confused, you lay the wood OVER the seeds? How do they germinate with no light and don't they get all squished?

As the manure is my main source of nutrients for the soil, if I leave it off one of the beds, how can I give it nutrition? I try to do organic, but will just pellets do?

[goodlife]

As the manure is my main source of nutrients for the soil, if I leave it off one of the beds, how can I give it nutrition? I try to do organic, but will just pellets do?

What sort of pellets are you talking about?

Different crops need different amounts of nutrients from the soil..so..things like brassicas need more nitrogen..that leaves more other nutrients to other crops like carrots for their roots. That's the basics of the crop rotation. Too rich soil can prevent the seed from germinating as well.
It is better with root crops to sow them into unfertilized ground..there will be enough 'stuff' left in ground for healthy start and once the seedlings have started to produce some proper leaves, you can then apply little amount of 'general' fertilizer if you fell they should need it. But idea with carrots is that they will find their roots deep to get the nutrients and water that is lurking deep bellow.. ;) Make them look for it and you get loooong roots and with a help of some extra watering once the 'neck' is forming you will make them 'swell' thick too.
Thinks like carrots don't have much foliage..so they don't 'need' much nitrogen...crops like parsnips and turnips..as you grow them for roots but they do have more leaf cover, they will benefit with bit of extra feed once they get growing, but give too much and they like to grow just tops.

[saddad]

I presume "chicken  pellets"  ?
Ithink you need to turn the plank daily after the first fortnight... I'm certainly going to give it a try...  :-\

[davyw1]

I presume "chicken  pellets"  ?
Ithink you need to turn the plank daily after the first fortnight... I'm certainly going to give it a try...  :-\

Nope no need to turn the planks at all, i will try and explain my method for any one to try

Nice lose loamy soil
No matter what i grow my ground is always prepared with organic manure (grow organic Comercial stuff) and firtalizer, growmore and fish blood (if you are organic then just the FBB) i dont think you get as good a result by just using manure or just firtalizer. I rake this in about two weeks before i am going to put my seeds in.
I make my drill (i use angle irion just lay it on the soil and stand on it) I then water the drill and then put my seeds in, i cover them lightly with dry compost and put the planks over the top resting on the soil and kept in place by bricks. the planks keep the soil moist and warmer as there is no wind chill. I go back 20/21 days later and...................................................

[davyw1]

Now if you have clay soil with a little bit of effort you can do the same.
Make up a mix of two parts riddled soil to one part compost Humax is the best you wont need to riddle it throw in a handful of FBB when mixing.
Make a wedge with a spade (photo below) across the garden and fill it with the mix water it well so it drops then top up with more mix and make your drill, plant your seeds ETC
If you want to go the extra yard you can mix in one part riddleled sharp sand

[goodlife]

I'm going to try you 'wooden plank' method.. ;D You learn something new everyday.. ;D

[davyw1]

Antipodes, can't you buy beetroot plants in the market or local garden shops, in modules/pots ready to plant out, where you are?

I guess so, but I would like a lot of beetroot  ;D  ;D  ;D Maybe I need to add a lot of compost to that ground? Or fleece it???

Davy I am a bit confused, you lay the wood OVER the seeds? How do they germinate with no light and don't they get all squished?

As the manure is my main source of nutrients for the soil, if I leave it off one of the beds, how can I give it nutrition? I try to do organic, but will just pellets do?

Most seed we use germinate quicker in the dark so when i set seeds away in trays i always cover with clear glass then black poythene on top to keep the light out. The glass creates condensaton so this keeps the compost moist the principle is the same with wood. try laying a bit on your soil for a day i bet its moist undernieth when you go back to it.
The young plants dont get squashed because the dibble is lower than the soil level.

If you grow organic then use Fish Blood and Bone but use it wisely for example instead of throwing it all over your garden and feeding the weeds just put a circle if it around each plant (brasicas) so it goes down to where it is needed
I use both manure and firtalizer as one give the plants what the other cant..

Now you said you have a problem with Turnip try this.
Hoe up your soil into mounds the length you want your turnip patch to be. I use short mounds because i grow continious. Sprinkle FBB along the top of the mound then make your drill water it then plant the seed cover with compost and water again with the rose on the can.
All yuou need to do then is keep them moist even after they have germinated to ensure rapid growth