Topic: Seed Sharing Circle 2012

[Robert_Brenchley]

I've got a couple of Couve tronchuda that made it through, I'll have a count after to see if there are enough plants.

You might be better saving seed from what you've got - which should be from the most frost resistant plants - and then perhaps introducing plants from unrelated seeds to the strain later. That way you can select for frost resistance. What variety is it? Mine are Portugese imports, so I wouldn't expect too much frost resistance.

[Jayb]

Not as many as I thought only 2 plants looking good and just starting to flower now, if seed is produced I'll saved to see. Seed came from Sample Seed Shop and I believe Remy sourced it from Portugal? I've bought more seeds from a few other sources which I'll try this year also. Cut-n-Come Again cabbage (ISSA) has wintered quite well, followed by Delaway cabbage. Do B.Oleracea and B.Napus cross?

[Jayb]

I'll hopefully be saving some James Scarlet carrot seed too for the circle.

[galina]

Do B.Oleracea and B.Napus cross?

Brassica napus -  Swede, turnip, Siberian kale, rape

Brassica oleracea - broccoli, Brussel sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, collards, kale, kohlrabi

The following is according to Suzanne Ashworth's Seed to Seed.  She says:  All members within each of the species cross with one another.  This means that varieties of broccoli, Br Sprouts, cabbage, kohlrabi, collards, cauliflower and kale will all cross with each other.

Sue Stickland in Back Garden Seed Saving, has this to say in her 'turnip and swede' chapter:  both crops readily cross pollinate.  Turnips (b. campestris) will not only cross with other turnip varieties, but with other crops of the same species: Chinese cabbages and Pak Choi, agricultural turnips and Turnip rapes.  Similarly swedes (B. napus) will cross with other garden swedes, and also some kales, agricultural swedes and rapes of the same species.  In addition, swedes will often cross equally readily with turnips and its related crops and vice versa.

In other words, different botanical names, but exactly the same information as Suzanne Ashworth.

And Sue Stickland adds: Neither (turnips or swedes) will cross with leafy brassicas (B. oleracea) however.

As both seedsaving books agree in substance, give or take the definition of kale and the species classification of turnips, I think we can be pretty sure that they don't cross  :)  

As to the kale definition, Sue Stickland lists Ragged Jack, Asparagus Kale and cottagers kale as b. oleracea.

Hope this makes sense, the brassica species do confuse me however often I read the relevant chapters in the books  ;D

[Robert_Brenchley]

I think you can assume that kale is oleracea until proven otherwise. There's a good page on Siberian Kale here: http://www.seedambassadors.org/Mainpages/still/napuskale/napuskale.htm , but I see a possible problem. Red Russian is so like Ragged Jack that I find it hard to believe they belong to different species!

[Jayb]

Thanks Galina and Robert. I've been getting myself in a bit of a knot, I’m thinking ahead to next year as I would like to be growing several varieties to make up a hardy mix, but as I’ve got some listed as Napus I wasn’t sure if I could add these in, perhaps I’ll do two mixes.
Delaway I  think is Napus and does have a turnip type taste but simarly so does the Cut-n-Come Again which is oleracea. I think I'd best write a list!

[galina]

I have seeds for a hardy mix of oleraceas - Grandpa Maycock's collards, lots of diversity, hardy and fairly long lived leafy kale type plants some have purple flower shoots like PSB.  With GMC you never know what you get, but what you get will feed the family.  I have had some losses in the bitter cold this last winter but the survivors are starting to leaf out generously.  Happy to send seeds.

Thank you Robert for the link, very interesting.  Under laboratory conditions (or very unusual natural conditions) crosses can happen very occasionally.  Interesting also the description. that all napus kale is far more tender than oleracea kale and more frost hardy.  We eat a lot of turnip leaves and they are certainly more tender than our usual kale

Thanks Galina and Robert. I've been getting myself in a bit of a knot, I’m thinking ahead to next year as I would like to be growing several varieties to make up a hardy mix, but as I’ve got some listed as Napus I wasn’t sure if I could add these in, perhaps I’ll do two mixes.
Delaway I  think is Napus and does have a turnip type taste but simarly so does the Cut-n-Come Again which is oleracea. I think I'd best write a list!

[galina]

Delaway I  think is Napus and does have a turnip type taste but simarly so does the Cut-n-Come Again which is oleracea. I think I'd best write a list!

Oleracea according to ISSA
http://www.xsdnet.com/seedsavers/cgi-bin/db.cgi?id=69&type=page

[Robert_Brenchley]

Thank you Robert for the link, very interesting.  Under laboratory conditions (or very unusual natural conditions) crosses can happen very occasionally.  Interesting also the description. that all napus kale is far more tender than oleracea kale and more frost hardy.  We eat a lot of turnip leaves and they are certainly more tender than our usual kale

Thanks Galina and Robert. I've been getting myself in a bit of a knot, I’m thinking ahead to next year as I would like to be growing several varieties to make up a hardy mix, but as I’ve got some listed as Napus I wasn’t sure if I could add these in, perhaps I’ll do two mixes.
Delaway I  think is Napus and does have a turnip type taste but simarly so does the Cut-n-Come Again which is oleracea. I think I'd best write a list!

Delaway seems to be a looseleaf cabbage (what's the technical difference?) rather than a kale. Kales definitely vary a lot; Spis Bladene was nearly killed in the last cold snap - one plant is still alive at the base - while Ragged Jack romped through.

[markfield rover]

Morrel de balbis are not coming out to play - mind you looking at the size of the thorns  not a child or stocking friendly plant.
So I shall replace it with tomato Humph( reminds me of Humph Lyttleton ) and MR Brooks Blue cfb.

[Dandytown]

After receiving such a great seed parcel in 2011 I just couldnt think of anything interesting or different to grow but I think I may be okay now.

My mother in law who is from Bangladesh gave me some seeds to grow some plants for her as she does not have room in her garden.

If they do well in our climate I'll supply these for this years swap.

The first candidate is Kodu/Lou which is one of the traditional pumpkins from Bangladesh.  I would have to supply a recipe with it that my mother in law uses.  The dish is great!!...but I have no idea how it tastes by itself
http://www.desiseeds.com/kodu-lou_seeds.php

I think the second candidite is Dugi/Dhata/Denga (tall) although I am only going by pictures so it could be something else?  Will confirm later.
http://www.desiseeds.com/dugi-dhata-denga-tall_seeds.php

The third is Green King cucmber which is also from Bangladesh.  I havent found any information on it to confirm if it is F1 or not or if there are european varieties that share the same name.

Will still be adding Kaferbohnen/Beetle Beans and some Pumpkin seed from my big one this year.

Sorry for getting happy with the colour  :)

[gunnerbee]

is this too late to join???? :-)

[Dandytown]

Not for me to say but I would imagine its never too late.  I would imagine the only time there would be a 'no' is if there is too many people.

Last years seed parcel from the swap was fantastic so it sure is worth joining  :)

Jayb will no doubt be along soon to nay or yay

[Jayb]

 ;D

yay

Welcome Gunnerbee, glad to have you join the group  :)

[Jayb]

After receiving such a great seed parcel in 2011 I just couldnt think of anything interesting or different to grow but I think I may be okay now.

My mother in law who is from Bangladesh gave me some seeds to grow some plants for her as she does not have room in her garden.

If they do well in our climate I'll supply these for this years swap.

The first candidate is Kodu/Lou which is one of the traditional pumpkins from Bangladesh.  I would have to supply a recipe with it that my mother in law uses.  The dish is great!!...but I have no idea how it tastes by itself
http://www.desiseeds.com/kodu-lou_seeds.php

I think the second candidite is Dugi/Dhata/Denga (tall) although I am only going by pictures so it could be something else?  Will confirm later.
http://www.desiseeds.com/dugi-dhata-denga-tall_seeds.php

The third is Green King cucmber which is also from Bangladesh.  I havent found any information on it to confirm if it is F1 or not or if there are european varieties that share the same name.

Will still be adding Kaferbohnen/Beetle Beans and some Pumpkin seed from my big one this year.

Sorry for getting happy with the colour  :)

All sounds very exotic and exciting, can't wait to hear how you get on  ;D
desiseeds looks an intresting site and not one I'd come across, thank you  :)

[cestrian]

Hi I just joined the site. This looks really interesting. Is it too late to join this club?

[cestrian]

I'm growing yellow stuffer tomatoes and bleu de solaise leeks both from the thompson & morgan heritage collection.

[galina]

It's been quiet here for a little while  :)  Have broadbean Oldambster Wierboon growing in the garden, at the moment in full bloom with a few little pods setting.  The flowers are pure white without the black dot that many varieties have.  They have shorter pods than some, but multiple pods from each node.  This is a very old Dutch landrace broadbean I was given years ago by a keen seedsaver and guardian of old varieties from The Netherlands. 

Parsley Pea and Dwarf Grey Sugar are looking good too - fingers crossed, as soon as intentions for seedsaving are announced publicly, the gremlins will find a way .........  I think we all have found this to be true  :(

In the greenhouse I have a row of lettuce from Trieste.  Originally 'liberated' from Gatersleben seedbank by a seedsaver from the USA.  Should be dry enough to produce seeds in the greenhouse hopefully.  Outdoor lettuce seedsaving can be a bit difficult in wet weather later in the season, especially getting any quantities.  Fingers crossed for everybody's seedsaving plans this year  ;)  How are things at the mo?

[goodlife]

Code: [Select]

Dwarf Grey Sugar are looking good too Oh good..I've been looking forward to try those..I had some from Jeannine legendary parcel few years ago but managed to feed them from 'mice'  ::)..and didn't get any to try myself.
I'm still in 'umm & arr' stage for what to grow for circle..anything and everything is on a go and all depending how this weather will develop. Some crops like beans are most still to be sown this weekend..but GH has been just far too hot place for them just recently.
Peas are doing well..and even though sparrows are trying to add them into their diet..so far they've only eaten the leaves that have poked through mesh...I'm sooo glad that I didn't feel lazy in planting time and did make efford covering them. ;D..none is flowering yet.
My chillies are doing BRILIANTLY this year.. ;D ;D..some have set fruit already and first ones ripening up in few weeks..I hope..but as I've only repotted my plants into larger pots and buckets I haven't started isolated flowers for seedsaving as yet..once they settle in and I'm sure that they won't start dropping flowers after potting on the glue will be out.. ;D
So all in all...everyting is still in early stages..but looking promising..

[Robert_Brenchley]

My Ragged Jack kale is just finishing flowering. I should have seed, I just hope it isn't badly crossed with anything. It shouldn't be because not many people leave brassicas to flower. Variegated Daubenton's has a few flowers right next to it, so there's going to be a bit of mixture from that, but it shouldn't be too bad. There probably won't be enough seeds from that to swap, as I'm ony expecting a few pods.