Topic: Allotment Sheds.

[Good Gourd 2]

We have had vandals visiting our allotments over the past 4 years, they are kids drinking to much, making fires which they make by using shed doors pallets, anything that they can lay their hands on. Up until now they have taken the petrol out of a couple of rotovate rs and then dumped them in the hedge. My concern is that some of our allotment committee are saying we don`t need sheds. >:(
I am devastated I could not operate without my shed, I love my shed.  How can I carry spade, fork, rake, hoe, watering cans, rotovater and me sarnies about one and a half miles. What does anyone else think. I am so angry that if its bought in then I shall give my allotment of 10years up.

[Unwashed]

I completely sympathise.  I've come accross a number of sites that use this justification to ban sheds.

How is your site managed - will the plot holders themselves have to vote this rule change through, or are your rules dictated to you by an ignorant and reactionary council?

[pumkinlover]

seems a cop out when better security is the answer ???

[lincsyokel2]

seems a cop out when better security is the answer ???

too right.  I have three sheds, the one with the valuable bits in is like fort knox. Padlock is high quality unpickable and unforceable. The door is three inches thick, on heavy duty coach bolts and haevy gate hinges, bolted to the frame which is 3x4 reinforced. The inside and roof are lined with chicken wire, and the whole thing is choach bolted together, and the panels wire bradded on with an electric nail gun.  Its surrounded with plastic water tanks (so you have to stand in two feet of water to get near it).  There only one way in,and thats to demolish it where it stands with a JCB, and even then the chicken wire will hold it together until painstakingly cut apart with metal shears. No one is going to attempt to break into my shed.

[artichoke]

Not my site, but one very nearby on flood plain next to small river: no sheds, no water butts, no compost daleks.

The reason? If there were a flood, these would float about and cause damage.

[pumkinlover]

To LY2- I should rephrase "better site security"- though I agree some people do not make any effort- probably best in those cases to  not have anything valuable and leave the door open.

[Unwashed]

seems a cop out when better security is the answer ???

Though sometimes it can be more complicated.

Putting a big enough fence around a site will keep people out, but it doesn't address the underlying social problem, and if that problem is vandalism from a disenfranchised and alienated underclass then putting up fences only serves to alienate and disenfranchise them more.  It's a difficult argument though to tell someone who's had their shed broken into that the best solution is to throw the site gates open and invite the community in.

[pumkinlover]

Yes good point Unwashed, having open days and having local schools to visit is how we try to address this issue.
Luckily we are  in an area where there are not too many problems
But I felt a bit that to say people should not have sheds because of break-ins is not very fair, and an easy way out for the Association/ council or whoever.

[tonybloke]

seems a cop out when better security is the answer ???

too right.  I have three sheds, the one with the valuable bits in is like fort knox. Padlock is high quality unpickable and unforceable. The door is three inches thick, on heavy duty coach bolts and haevy gate hinges, bolted to the frame which is 3x4 reinforced. The inside and roof are lined with chicken wire, and the whole thing is choach bolted together, and the panels wire bradded on with an electric nail gun.  Its surrounded with plastic water tanks (so you have to stand in two feet of water to get near it).  There only one way in,and thats to demolish it where it stands with a JCB, and even then the chicken wire will hold it together until painstakingly cut apart with metal shears. No one is going to attempt to break into my shed.

padlock? watch this for how easy it can be to open one
no such thing as an unforceable padlock
 http://youtu.be/fRjNnnLOpmE

[elvis2003]

Thats scary Tony!
To go back to OP..have they come to any suggestions as how to implement this rule should it be enforced...and is it legal to do so? for example,as a three shed couple ourselves,would we be forced to remove them all..and would a communal shed to store tools be made available?
I hope this matter gets sorted peacefully,I too sympathise
R x

[jimtheworzel]

seems a cop out when better security is the answer ???

too right.  I have three sheds, the one with the valuable bits in is like fort knox. Padlock is high quality unpickable and unforceable. The door is three inches thick, on heavy duty coach bolts and haevy gate hinges, bolted to the frame which is 3x4 reinforced. The inside and roof are lined with chicken wire, and the whole thing is choach bolted together, and the panels wire bradded on with an electric nail gun.  Its surrounded with plastic water tanks (so you have to stand in two feet of water to get near it).  There only one way in,and thats to demolish it where it stands with a JCB, and even then the chicken wire will hold it together until painstakingly cut apart with metal shears. No one is going to attempt to break into my shed.
[/quote

be carefull you dont lose the key

[Unwashed]

But I felt a bit that to say people should not have sheds because of break-ins is not very fair, and an easy way out for the Association/ council or whoever.

Oh I quite agree.

[pansy potter]

My secret is to never have a tidy shed.Before you pack up to go home chuck things in like old compost bags and some of that tangled up green netting that you never use.Whoever wants to get at your stuff has to clear all the rubbish out.
Of course that is if you are allowed a shed

[Borlotti]

Not allowed sheds, Council allotment.  Never had one so don't miss it, do have a small locker provided by the Council and only had to pay £8 for that for the key, which is returnable.  The Council also provide toilets, a bit basic but at least do flush, and when the system leaks can have a shower at the same time.  Wheelbarrows can be left in the locked toilet area.  I don't really find it too much of a problem as take stuff up as I need it, did feel a bit stupid pushing my plastic wheelbarrow home, loaded up with produce last year, felt like a bag lady.  It depends on the area, but have found that sheds are a magnet for theft and damage. One new allotment holder has put a tent up to shelter in when it rains and two garden chairs.  They are very trusting and so far they have not been stolen, but not sure that tents are allowed either but so far so good, hope it doesn't turn into tent city.

[lincsyokel2]

seems a cop out when better security is the answer ???

too right.  I have three sheds, the one with the valuable bits in is like fort knox. Padlock is high quality unpickable and unforceable. The door is three inches thick, on heavy duty coach bolts and haevy gate hinges, bolted to the frame which is 3x4 reinforced. The inside and roof are lined with chicken wire, and the whole thing is choach bolted together, and the panels wire bradded on with an electric nail gun.  Its surrounded with plastic water tanks (so you have to stand in two feet of water to get near it).  There only one way in,and thats to demolish it where it stands with a JCB, and even then the chicken wire will hold it together until painstakingly cut apart with metal shears. No one is going to attempt to break into my shed.

padlock? watch this for how easy it can be to open one
no such thing as an unforceable padlock
 http://youtu.be/fRjNnnLOpmE

This is a Thacham Approved padlock, used for motorbikes. It is 6 cylinder anti pick (it has mushroom shaped tumblers so cant  be picked with hand picks or a vibrating pick gun, and bump keys fail on it), its one piece body and the hasp is hardened to 1900 Brinell (which is almost as hard as glass), and cannot be cropped or sawn by hand, and needs a diamond disc to angle grind it,  and is resistant to being jacked apart to 1900 lbs force. It was  nearly £100.

One of my past hobbies was lockpicking, i own a 17 piece professional lockpick set, and can pick a yale lock in about  five minutes, and I also know several other attack methods including how to make bump keys (however, try walking into a locksmiths and asking for a blank key), but no one is getting through this padlock  (explaining to the police why i had a lockpick set in the car got very tiresome, twice).

Lockipicking as a pastime is fun, you can do it watching the TV, and a basic lockpick set is about £8. You also quickly realise what ar egood padlocks and what are crap. When i first started doing it i went round the house, and tried all the padlocks and yales I had, and replaced any i picked. After all, if I coudl do it, someone els ecoudl as well. I made a vibrating pick gun out of an electric toothbrush, that worked quite well as well. But bump keys are the bees knees,  5 tumbler Yale locks are particularly susceptable to them. Shimming padlocks only works on cheap padlocks that use single 45 degree interlocks, better padlocks wil not succumb to shimming because they have anti shim rings machined into the interlock. All those padlocks in that video are pretty cheap and nasty, either chinese or american.

Most padlocks are cheaply made to the lowest standards, or use very old security techniques, and are easy to get past.  If it isnt Thacham, then its vulnerable to attack.

this padlock, for example, cannot be shimmed, but if you know how, it CAN be vibrated open:

http://nsa10.casimages.com/img/2010/01/12/100112083919996071.jpg

having said all that, this type of lock, known as a tubular lock
http://www.singlekeys.com/SK_assets/productimages/vending/cobralockimage.jpg

has its own lockpick
http://www.universalbumpkeys.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/l/p/lpso10tlp_-_south-ord_10_pin_tubular_lock_pick_7.jpg

as do most types of locks!!!

[Ellen K]

seems a cop out when better security is the answer ???

Though sometimes it can be more complicated.

Putting a big enough fence around a site will keep people out, but it doesn't address the underlying social problem, and if that problem is vandalism from a disenfranchised and alienated underclass then putting up fences only serves to alienate and disenfranchise them more.  It's a difficult argument though to tell someone who's had their shed broken into that the best solution is to throw the site gates open and invite the community in.

I had my shed broken into last week and predictably, I think the above is ... well, not a load of carp but something that isn't valid in the current economic climate.  This time, the break ins were by people looking for scrap and they had a vehicle and good set of bolt croppers and took spades.  To say that we could have avoided it by being a bit more community minded seems naive at best and at worst a simple case of blaming the victims.  There are a lot of people out there who just want the money and will hit the softest target to get it, regardless.

[lincsyokel2]

seems a cop out when better security is the answer ???

Though sometimes it can be more complicated.

Putting a big enough fence around a site will keep people out, but it doesn't address the underlying social problem, and if that problem is vandalism from a disenfranchised and alienated underclass then putting up fences only serves to alienate and disenfranchise them more.  It's a difficult argument though to tell someone who's had their shed broken into that the best solution is to throw the site gates open and invite the community in.

I had my shed broken into last week and predictably, I think the above is ... well, not a load of carp but something that isn't valid in the current economic climate.  This time, the break ins were by people looking for scrap and they had a vehicle and good set of bolt croppers and took spades.  To say that we could have avoided it by being a bit more community minded seems naive at best and at worst a simple case of blaming the victims.  There are a lot of people out there who just want the money and will hit the softest target to get it, regardless.

its the old story, in the end all you can rely on is yourself. Ive made my shed so hard to get into, so that if they come a-thieving they will give up and wont bother, and they do someone else shed that easier to get into. And if all the sheds were as a hard as mine, they would give up and do another site.

[tonybloke]

I've found that a cordless grinder fitted with a diamond wheel opens most padlocks.
and, the more locks on a shed, the more worthwhile breaking in to, usually!!

[lincsyokel2]

I've found that a cordless grinder fitted with a diamond wheel opens most padlocks.
and, the more locks on a shed, the more worthwhile breaking in to, usually!!

right, i said it needed attacking with a diamond wheel, read my post.

How many burglars go round equipped as such, most shed thefts are some low life  with a crowbar on the padlock.

[Robert_Brenchley]

We've had break ins quite a few times since I've been on the site, and apart from an obsessive neighbour, they never bothered me. I have a stout gate, a thick thorn hedge, and they go looking for easier targets!