Topic: He's taking my allotment away!

[faerie9]

 Hello :)
Hi, I'm a newbie, I'm Jenni and in Wiltshire... sorry to barge right in with a question but I've had a crisis today!

I live in rented accomodation and have just found out that my landlord [a farmer] is taking my allotment away - I am so so so upset and angry. I have spent hours preparing it, I love growing my own veggies, it is only 15m x 4m, its not a lot of land and he is taking it away. He has not even told us in person, we have just been told by one of the farmhands.

I am so angry that he hasn't even had the decency to speak to us about it. Are there any old laws on villagers rights to allotments? Is there anything I can do or will I just have to put up and shut up?

He wants to re-fence the allotment ASAP (probably first thing tomorrow morning)

Thank you so much for listening, I would be so grateful for any and all advice.

Jenni

[tim]

Don't know, but fingers crossed. = Tim

[sandersj89]

Hello :)
Hi, I'm a newbie, I'm Jenni and in Wiltshire... sorry to barge right in with a question but I've had a crisis today!

I live in rented accomodation and have just found out that my landlord [a farmer] is taking my allotment away - I am so so so upset and angry. I have spent hours preparing it, I love growing my own veggies, it is only 15m x 4m, its not a lot of land and he is taking it away. He has not even told us in person, we have just been told by one of the farmhands.

I am so angry that he hasn't even had the decency to speak to us about it. Are there any old laws on villagers rights to allotments? Is there anything I can do or will I just have to put up and shut up?

He wants to re-fence the allotment ASAP (probably first thing tomorrow morning)

Thank you so much for listening, I would be so grateful for any and all advice.

Jenni

The key is: Does you tenancy agreement for you home include any referance for a provisions of allotment or garden?

If not then your allotment is purley an informal arrangement between yourself and the landowner. This assume your allotment is on private ground which it sounds like it is.

If that is the case there is very little if anything you can do.

If your agreement does make provision for the "garden" then he is not allowed to change the circumstances without prior discussion or reasonable notice and there would be a reduction in rent if agreed.

I would be tempted to approach the farmer ASAP expressing your concerns making it clear your efforts to date.  As it is such a small area it is worth little to him in terms of lost profits. There may be other reasons why he is seeking to take it back into his control.

If he is not open to a no cost option offer say £25 annual rent and ask him to draw up a very simple agreement to add to you tenancy. Suggest this is reveiwed on the same time table as your tenancy.

Above all make the effort to talk to him face to face to discuss why he is doing this.

Jerry

[faerie9]

Thank you for the replies :)

The farmer leases much of the land in the village from a large landowner. The allotment backs on to my garden, and on the other side of it is a farmers field which is used for livestock. The allotment will be re-fenced to become part of the field.

The only mention in the tenancy of garden, land and boundaries is "to keep the garden ... in good condition with all fences hedges and other boundaries"

There is no specific mention of alltoment- though historically the 4 cottages of which mine is one, have all got allotments. I rented "the property" which included allotment.

I know I probably don't have a lot of choice - but given that it is such a small plot of land in comparison to the existing field, I will do my best to keep it.
I shall be getting in touch with him first thing tomorrow morning.

Thanks for the advice and support :)

[Ceri]

when you say the cottages historically have allotments - do you know how historically??  If the sites were made over to allotments by the owner, rather than the farmer, way back when surely this would help?  In some villages the parish council manage old allotment sites - in my sister's village this is the case.  Could they help?

[sandersj89]

Thank you for the replies :)

The farmer leases much of the land in the village from a large landowner. The allotment backs on to my garden, and on the other side of it is a farmers field which is used for livestock. The allotment will be re-fenced to become part of the field.

The only mention in the tenancy of garden, land and boundaries is "to keep the garden ... in good condition with all fences hedges and other boundaries"

There is no specific mention of alltoment- though historically the 4 cottages of which mine is one, have all got allotments. I rented "the property" which included allotment.

I know I probably don't have a lot of choice - but given that it is such a small plot of land in comparison to the existing field, I will do my best to keep it.
I shall be getting in touch with him first thing tomorrow morning.

Thanks for the advice and support :)

That makes it a little more complicated, the incumbent farmer is not the landowner. Normally this means the leasing farmer is not allowed to sublet, which in effect this is what he is doing for your allotment. Some one may have passed this info onto the freeholder which means he may loose his lease rights across all the land he rents. Thus him removing you allotment ASAP.

This makes it far more unlikely he will let you continue I am afraid as he is breaking the rules in the first place.

As the tenancy makes no specific provision for an allotment above and beyond the garden you do not have much legal recourse I am afraid. "History" may be of importance but it is very hard to prove in a court of law if it were to go that far. Also recent precedent is not on your side I am afraid.

My angle of attack would be one of reason. Small area, little direct value to him but a very large value to him if he is breaking the terms on his lease for the land.

Offer to him that you would love to stay gardening it but give him assurance you will vacate at short notice, days if required,  if he is heading for trouble with his land lord.

Land law and tenancies are a nightmare , I am in the middle of a similar situation but on a much larger scale, (200 acres), that has been running for 2 years.

Above all, speak to him. Try and find out the real situation, be flexible, be open.

Jerry

[Jesse]

Jenni, find out why he is doing this first, it may be misinformation from a third party (I hope so). Is your landlord usually unreasonable? If not, then as Jerry says perhaps it's because he feels he has no option. Best know the facts first then make a decision from there. But try to keep communication open and friendly, it's the easiest way to solve problems with neighbours and landlords. Good luck.

[Sarah-b]

This is a really unpleasant situation.
Good luck Jenni
Let us know how you get on...
Sarah.

[newchangeling]

No advice to offer, I'm afraid, but I wanted to lend some moral support at least.  It sounds gutting that you might lose your lottie and in such a horrible way as well.

My fingers are crossed for you.  Please keep us up to date with what happens.

[faerie9]

Hi all thank you so much for the responses.
I delivered a letter to him this morning stating my concerns and asking for clarification (he is hard to track down in person and I didn't want to lose my rag at him! :o )

Ceri - I probably used the wrong word "historically" - I presume the cottages have always had them( the layout suggests this) but I have no ready means of finding out. There have certainly been alltoments for the last 10 years.
Thank you for giving me ideas to check - there is rumour (great! so many rumours here, so few facts!) that the owner wants to sell my house, and so the farmer is claiming back as much field before it moves out of his control. Which logically I understand... it would be nice to know if I am having to move out, too!! :-\

Jerry: I do not believe he is subletting without permission - he is renting [leasing] the farmland and a number of houses on their land which he may rent out as he wishes. That is my understanding.

I realise I don't have a lot of legal leg to stand on which is why I have taken the reasoned approach.
Hopefully I will get some good (even if not ideal) answers.

Good luck with your struggle too - it sounds awful, all the best :):):)

Jesseveve, I am sure it is not misinformation. My neigbour on the end lost her allotment today.  :o Heopfully this can get resolved well enough without too much conflict - he is my landlord after all and I don't want to cause too much trouble! At the same time though, I am not going to take this easily either!

Sarah-b and newchangeling
Thank you for your support too
I will make sure I let you know how I get on.

Fingers crossed I will still have an allotment and then I can become a regular poster here :D
I made the decision a few months ago to either do it properly this year or not at all and I decided to go for it... so FINGERS CROSSED!!!  :D :D


Thanks again
Jenni :)

[faerie9]

Update:

He has roped off my lottie, leaving me with 1/3. This is the third that has been unworked for years and is solid COUCH grass. Nice!

Still no word from him.

I'll give him a bell tomorrow, find out whats going on, whether I can dig over the new bit.
Feeling somewhat disheartened and not looking forward to starting from scratch , but still determined to keep going and will  be glad when its all running smoothly again.

[rosebud]

Hi faerie dont despair, i have just been reading your post  WELCOME TO THE BOARDS. You dont have to own an allotment to be here, some of us havent got one.  I do hope it all works out for you try a bit of flattery and smooth talking  hes a man. Ha ha ha ha !!  cheers Rosebud.

[faerie9]

Hi Rosebud and thanks  ;D

If I could ever get hold of him it would help!
He's never about and has not responded to any of my attempts to contact him. ???
So its full steam ahead with the couch-grass-removal plan!!
I have been at it all day today, I am exhausted but its going well... :)

[NattyEm]

OK, so I have no proper legal knowledge, but isn't there a part of common law that states if you've owned/worked something for long enough then you can claim rights to it?

Like if you have a squatter in your house its hard to get them out.  Or did all that change with the criminal justice bill?

I was just thinking that if you really can't get any response you could form some kind of legal action preventing the farmer from actually taking back the land, especially if he doesn't actually own it.  It may at least buy you a bit of time.

[faerie9]

Em:
I was initially thinking along the same lines... but I have not been able to find out definitively.

Trouble is: how far do I want to push him? He does have the right to give me a months notice whenever he likes, and while I am narked with the way he has treated me over this (i.e. totally ignored me) I don't want to lose my home over it.

I may go visit the CAB on Monday as I have a day off.

I'll let you know!

[Carrie]

Hi,
Just a little bit of legal input - to claim "squatters rights" (or possessory title) as Nattyem suggested you would have had to have been occupying the land for a minimum of 10 years (law has recently changed as it used to be 12 years) and would have to have been occupying it without the agreement of the owner of the land - as you refer to the farmer as your landlord then it appears that he has knowledge and has agreed (up to now) to your using the land - so I am afraid you would not have a claim on that basis.

You may have a stronger claim on the basis that the land was included in your tenancy agreement (not my area of expertise I am afraid) and I'm sure the CAB could help you out with that.

Hope all goes well

[faerie9]

Thanks for that carrie :)
I realise he is also in breach of the "quiet enjoyment" clause of the contract - he has certainly disturbed that!!
There's a couple of (minor) things in the contract we've not quite stuck to ether so perhaps its karma  ;D

I got loads done today, don't know if i fancy a few hours out to go to the CAB tomorrow, I might even get it all done tomorrow - I spoke to my neighbour who has been doing all the fencing for the farmer who said that it should all get completed tomorrow. He kindly agreed to leave my bit of fencing till last, he knows how upset I am over it, and can see how hard I've worked.

I'm slowly realising that I have been done a favour: had I had no pressure, I would not have nearly as many beds dug over as I have now, and the soil is just fantastic as I have moved the good stuff over, nice and loose already. And it will look so pretty when its done - I guess next year I will begin wishing for more room!

Keep finding loads of manky potatoes though - I thought I'd dug 'em all out last year!! :o

[newchangeling]

It's impressive that you're able to be so philosophical about this and to take some positives from such an upsetting experience.

I don't envy you the shock you've had, but I do think I could do with a kick up the posterior myself to get more done down my lottie!