Topic: Members taking on second plots?

[Trevor_D]

Like a lot of sites, we've got a waiting list. For the last two years or so, I've been dealing with this by splitting 10 or 15 pole plots as they become vacant and only letting out 5 pole plots to new members. For the majority, that's enough, and as a result the whole site is beginning to look cultivated.

But some, obviously, "grow out of" that space and want more land. Existing policy - before there was a waiting list - was that if a plot became vacant, the plot-holders around had first refusal; in the case of those with 5 poles, I've continued this policy. But now I've had requests from plot-holders who already have 10 poles and want another 5.

What do the rest of you do about existing members taking on extra land? At least they're a known quantity, whereas a new member is simply a name on a piece of card; some have been brilliant, but some a waste of space. But new members keep the place growing and flourishing. We have made a decision, but I'm just interested in putting it into context and finding out what happens on other sites.

[chriscross1966]

Like a lot of sites, we've got a waiting list. For the last two years or so, I've been dealing with this by splitting 10 or 15 pole plots as they become vacant and only letting out 5 pole plots to new members. For the majority, that's enough, and as a result the whole site is beginning to look cultivated.

But some, obviously, "grow out of" that space and want more land. Existing policy - before there was a waiting list - was that if a plot became vacant, the plot-holders around had first refusal; in the case of those with 5 poles, I've continued this policy. But now I've had requests from plot-holders who already have 10 poles and want another 5.

What do the rest of you do about existing members taking on extra land? At least they're a known quantity, whereas a new member is simply a name on a piece of card; some have been brilliant, but some a waste of space. But new members keep the place growing and flourishing. We have made a decision, but I'm just interested in putting it into context and finding out what happens on other sites.

I'd suggest that while the shift from 5 to 10 could be a "priority" case, the sihift from 10 to 15 should be "join the queue"..... 10 poles is a fair old space after all..... though I guess someone with 10 poles and moving to 15 is completely solid in knowing what they're taking on, and indeed I might well loo into shifting up to 15 myself in the next few years.... I'll wait until all my original 10 are properly under control though :D, after all I've got several poles at home between the greenhouse, the fruit aqnd asparagus beds adn the winter veg plots.....

chrisc

chrisc

[BarriedaleNick]

On our site existing members can swap a plot if a new one becomes available but they can no longer take another one ahead of the waiting list.  Years ago when we had issues getting new people then existing holders were allowed another plot but no longer!

[Ellen K]

Our plots are standard 10 poles and now, as they come free, they are split into 2 and offered to people on the waiting list.  We've got a lot of plot holders with 2 plots from the days when they were hard to let but it wouldn't happen now - the council wouldn't allow it out of fairness to the people on the list.

But it's hard to enforce so you see a husband and wife each put their names down and get a full sized plot when one comes up.  

You can spend years on a waiting list and those with 10 poles have already got a massive garden.

So if it were me, I'd be saying no (and not even Join the Q) and weathering the flack.

[pumkinlover]

The impression I got from the allotment training given by NSALG is that they want 10 pole to remain the "Standard", so that keeps the pressure on local authorities to provise enough allotments. Therefore your present procedure sounds ok.

On my site the committee (not necessarily my view) decided that in view of the waiting list being one and a half times the number of plots, that anyone wanting anymore land would have to go back on the list again and wait their turn.

I have found that people moving from half to full has lead to them not keeping up both!!
Also a lot of people who have 5 poles- having told me they definatly want a Full plot, turn round later and agree a half plot is enough.

We have no "rule "about the maximum no. anyone can have and being a small site I do not think we would let anyone have more than 20 poles.

I have roughly that amount but I have had them - and waited on the list for them -in the past (10-15 years ago) when the demand was nothing like it is now.

I'd be interested in what you decided ,if you decided to tell :-X

[irnhed]

On our site, a member is only allowed a single plot.

A couple can have two single plots, as long as they both went on the waiting list, and both actively work the land.

New members are only allowed a half plot, which can be bulked up to a full one after a one year probation.

All seems sensible to me.

My 'two halves' are on different parts of the site - but the second one is on the 'sunny side', so there was no way I was going to turn it down.

Ours is a relatively small site - about 20 or so full plots.

I think it's sensible to give land to existing members, as they're known entities.

However, in terms of 'risk mitigation', you're better of having more individuals sharing the land.  That way, if a member is no longer able to garden / has to stop / causes problems, they amount of land that they're tying up is proportionally less.

I also think its beneficial to the site to have as many individuals as possible, to make the mix more interesting, and to create more of a 'community' feel - if you see what I mean.

Just my 2p worth.

[Digeroo]

I am on a private site so the rules are different but for official allotments I feel these should be available to an many different people as possible particulalarly if they are subsidised at the tax payers expense.  I think that people should be allowed to upgrade to a 10 pole plot if they are successful but only from 10 to 15 if there is positively no waiting list or if there is an overgrown plot which no one wants.

[BAK]

Trevor_D,

of 55 plots on our site only two are now 10 poles ... the average size is just under 5. We too have adopted a policy of splitting larger plots as they become available.

When a waiting list appeared (and grew) some years ago it was decided that existing plot holders could no longer apply for a second plot.

However, we have seen quite a sizeable turnover in plot holders over the last two years for various reasons. This has had the effect of drastically reducing the waiting list ... I think (but do not know for sure) that there are currently only one or two on it.

Anyway, existing plot holders can now apply for a second plot once again. They go on the waiting list. The guy next to me put his name down earlier this year and got a second plot last week.

In your situation 15 poles does sound a lot. Perhaps you could limit the plots that are offered to the reliable existing plot holders to any troublesome or overgrown
ones on the basis that they can be relied on to sort them out?!

[shirlton]

This is a difficult one.5 years ago when we didn't have waiting list plots were so easy to get. Some had 3 or more. Some were even permitted to take 3 uncultivated plots on at one time.Now that plots are in demand I feel that anyone wanting to take on another plot should go at the bottom of the waiting list and then only if their original plot is well cultivated should be considered for another.

[Trevor_D]

Thanks for the input. For the record, we're a private site too, so in theory we can do what we like; in practice, of course, we've got to do what the majority of our members are happy with! And we've got about 100 members.

Our decision - which we are still reviewing - is that any member who already has 10 poles can't take on any more unless either there's no waiting list, or it's a plot no-one else wants to take on. But 5 pole plot-holders can still be offered another 5 poles. And the situation is muddied slightly, because we also have six very small Starter Plots (two raised beds, each about 12x4) which members rent for just one season, part of the deal being that they will then be offered a 5 pole plot if they are confident enough to deal with it.

And, of course, there are still a few of us who have more than 10 poles, which we took on when you couldn't give allotments away!

[shirlton]

That seems very fair

[Fork]

This situation is exactly why we not not allow "half plots" on our site,too much hassle!

We cannot just swop over to another plot that becomes available either.If you are not happy with your piece of land and want to swop you have to give your bit up and join the waiting list...then you probably wont get the one you wanted anyway!

[Ben Acre]

How about someone who had five plots and did not do any properly!

Seen that and the ones with two plots and they cannot even do one properly, Its just greed as far as I am concerned.

[shirlton]

Perhaps they won't be so greedy when the rents go up

[Alex133]

I think Trevor_D's general rules are very good. I had 2 years learning on a 5 rod then moved to a 10 rod which has worked really well.  The extra large/2 plot holders tend to date back to the time allotments were unpopular and probably helped keep the site going - good for them.  I guess you can't stop couples putting their names down separately but you can be strict about cultivation and paying the rent on time.

[cornykev]

I've always thought that the lotters on our site are greedy having two or three plots, but can understand that nobody wanted these years ago
After newbies on our site having taken on new plots, I am dissappointed in seeing them coming a few times and not bothering for weeks on end
Some of them, fair play are having a good go but most just in my opinion see it as something to tell there mates about
So I'm now of the opinion let the oldies have an extended or another plot
I agree with Simon about not worrying about other plotters but when your surrouned by weeds it makes my blood boil
But Shirls right the rise in rents around the country will make them think twice about double and treble plotting
 :-\ :P

[pigeonseed]

On our site nobody's allowed a second plot, no matter how small their first one is.

I got a bit frustrated watching the little plots either side of me neglected all the time, while I wasn't allowed to take them on. I think it should be okay to add extra until you have ten rods. But I do sympathise with people who are on the waiting list who would be a bit annoyed if they knew land was coming up, but was given to insiders.

In the end I was lucky, there was a bureaucratic mix up and the council bloke ended up letting me have half of the next door plot because it was easier than sorting the mix-up out (I don't get why either, but I didn't argue!  ;D). It's only an extra 2 rods, but I'm lucky to get it.  :)

[mpdjulie]

How about someone who had five plots and did not do any properly!

Seen that and the ones with two plots and they cannot even do one properly, Its just greed as far as I am concerned.
[/
Someone on our site was given 6 plots all in one go.  They came down one Sunday, dug about a 3foot square area, let their 2 teenage girls run all over other people's plots with their constantly barking dog and we never saw them again.
When our rents were due to be paid he was contacted and told if he still wanted a plot it would be just the one but he wasn't happy with that.  Now he has none and again haven't heard from him since March.
We have 3 plots but they are all cultivated and mostly planted (just waiting another couple of weeks to put all the tender stuff out).  We always get comments on our plots and it makes us very proud of ourselves.
Julie
 :)

[kNOTWEED]

On our site several plot holders have more than one plot this dates back to when you could not pay someone to take on a plot, the only reason a plot holder would be asked (told ) to give up a plot is if it becomes uncultivated. The turn over of plot holders on our site is fairly high with on average only one in three new members staying more than 2 years. I don't know if  this high turn over is due to the fact we get two types of new plot holder type 1 takes on a plot believing that a lot of hard work is required ,these stay and type 2 watch the tv, see lovely soil apply for a plot and find that it more like concrete and give up. The ones that do stay, stay a very long time some in excess of 30 years. New plot holders are encouraged to take smaller plots, ours vary between 3.5 and 10 poles. No one is allowed  to have an untidy plot. On our site if a plot holder has a short term illness or other problems all they have to do is tell a member of the committee that they need short term help and it is provided. once a newcomer has proved they can look after their plot they can  either apply for an extra plot or move to a larger one             

[Ben Acre]

Does anyone realise just how much 10 rod is? we had a similar problem at my old site in Lowestoft, One woman had five ten rod plots and could not keep up one, every plot was weed bound and she did a small square in each until it got too full of weeds. Its just greed, ten rod is more than enough for anyone and I would never ever give another plot holder another plot, I just dont think they would cope.

too many so called gardeners just want to say "Oh I have an allotment" but just potter and wedd and fiddle around and do sod all. These are the ones we have to discourage,

we also had a nine month probation period so if a plot was not cultivated an kept clean they would be booted off. Then we started by asking for a £20 deposit which was returned after the plot holder gave the land up only if the plot was left in a clean weed free condition.

If not that money would be used to pay for fuel and strimmer cord and rotavator or weed killer,

to get the plot back in good condition.