Topic: Your views please

[SMP1704]

These our are new allotment rules

http://www.hounslow.info/parks/allotments/documents/ALLOTMENTS-AllotmentRules_V3.pdf

What do you think?  How does it compare with yours?  I'm pleased that we finally have a clear definition of cultivation but other bits just seem OTT

This is in a really obscure part of Hounslow's website and existing plotholders were not consulted or notified that the rules had been finalised - although for a local authority I really shouldn't be that surprised.

[BAK]

SMP1704,

just a general comment on such documents being OTT.

Unfortunately, there are usually a small number of plot holders who will either deliberately push the rules or decide because something is not specifically written down anywhere then it is assumed to be ok.

In addition, there are occasions when you would think that common sense will prevail ... only to find out that you were somewhat naive in your thinking. A small example on our site concerns parking. There is a car park next to the main entrance but there are also places on the site where you can sensibly park nearer to your plot ... but not all people are sensible seemingly.

Therefore, the authors of such documents tend to feel the need to spell things out in great detail in (arguably vain) attempts to minimise the amount of subsequent aggro. You will probably find that many items have been the source of some grief in the past.

Just one nit-picking observation ... the criteria for cultivation presumably apply in (say) late spring, but it does not say this. To state the obvious many plots would probably fail if they were applied in autumn or winter?

[pumkinlover]

To be of any use they should be easily available to all plot holders-not just those who go to the trouble of looking on obscure parts of the web site.
I take it you are council managed.

To me they look ok. I guess that the council has to put in everything it can think of because otherwise some person could say "well it's not in the rules" that I can't move in and have a party till 3 am. ;) ;)

Didn't notice anything about not growing cannabis though!!!

I agree with BAK - at one time it was enough to say something is just commensense .Not any longer ??? ??? ???

[argali]

  In genreal they look OK if perhaps a bit detailed. Not too sure about 1.2, that seems very harsh and not in line with ' A Place to Grow' the government's own advice to councils on management of allotments.
 
  Some medical problems might last for more that 3 months but after treatment the person would have fully recovered. Allowance of some kind needs to be made for these cases.

[SMP1704]

Thanks all.  I was surprised by some of the 'bans' i.e. no ponds and remove fruit trees at end of tenancy.

There is a lot there that is included because of 'problem' tenants, where you would think common sense and decency would indicate the right thing to do...........but then they do the opposite.

I'm still wondering why it's buried in the back pages of the website.

yes, we are council managed (if rather arms length)  Pumpkinlover - Was talking to someone wanting an allotment at the weekend and they asked 'do people live here?' :o so you're right the rules do have to cover every eventuality.

BAK - good point on cultivation, the inspections start in March and run through to October and to be honest, its cultivation that's my bug bear - why take on a plot and do nothing with it??? 

[Trevor_D]

Our rules cover basically the same ground, but in a couple of dozen very short sentences. But then we are on hand to "interpret" for those thickies who don't understand.

And we don't ban ponds, or insist that trees are removed at the end of tenancy. (They're a perk for the next tenant!)

[Robert_Brenchley]

We actually did have a couple of people living on the site during the Blitz. That's the only time I've heard of such a thing though!

[Mr Smith]

 Just wish our council  showed the same interest, because of the lack of interest by our landlord some allotment holders on our site don't give a toss about anything, they can't even be bothered to lock the allotment gates so I can't wait for the travellers to arrive on site,I have also informed the council but was as happened nowt,

[cornykev]

A bit detailed but as said people do push the boundary's so lots of rules are needed
Agree 1.2 is harsh and I'm sure they would have no right to see your medical records  ???
Ponds, with H&S and children on site I can understand this, but a compromise could be found with a small shallow pond with meshing over it
We are allowed bonfires, but only if the wind is blowing away from the houses on one side of the plot, no one should need more than one fire a year, so do it on Guy Fawkes  :P
We don't have hoses, we have water troughs
Ours says, grow fruit, veg, flowers or lawn  ???
I can also understand removing tree's, some on our plot put them all over the place and it is hard for the next tenant to plant rows of veg.
 ;)

[Borlotti]

Kev is speaking sense (for once  ;D ;D ;D). I agree with him.  Deep ponds could be a real danger with young children or even shallow ponds, agree children should be supervised, but would hate an accident to happen on our allotments.  My small trees have got very big, pity the next tenants to dig them up, so all in all sensible rules.

[Unwashed]

I do so hate rule-mongers.  It's an allotment, not the United Nations.

Note that the landlord can't just change the rules, and the rule that says they can is meaningless (another consequence of UTCCR 1999).

That rule about being evicted if you have your stuff stolen also seems rather harsh.

[pumkinlover]

That rule about being evicted if you have your stuff stolen also seems rather harsh.

 I've just read that one U/W and it  is rather badly worded.

Unfortuantly I doubt if there's anything in there that someone hasn't done at some time on a plot and that's probably why they are so specific. ???

commensense just evaporates I'm afraid >:(

[djbrenton]

Over the years we've had people try and take topsoil home, try and bring topsoil ( with possible introductions ) in, use a broken down caravan as a shed and abandon it when they left. We've had someone try and live in their shed, use their allotment for airgun practice, try and build over their whole allotment, turf 90% with small bedfs cut in to grow the tiny amount of veg, fill a massive new pond from the water tap ( probable cost around £200, yes, that big a pond), remove 70 year old boundary hedge and replace it with a low fence ( site security compromised), place gates between their allotmen and their house, then move house and leave a gap in the boundary hedge. We've had people ignore giant knotweed, claim as permaculture a badly tended plot, grow 40 or 50 kg of onion sets and make 200 hanging baskets then sell them all in their greengrocers, hard landscape a sizeable area for 3 cars to stand when a group is on site, store out of tax vehicles on plots.
 Many of these things could be hard to deal with if the rules were too few and vague. Several of them produced a need for specific rules to prevent reoccurence. Any rule that assumes common sense is hard to enforce.

[Trevor_D]

We've had all that and more.

But that was the old "committee"....

[aj]

That rule about being evicted if you have your stuff stolen also seems rather harsh.

This one?

Theft of produce, plants or other items from a plot without permission of the tenant of the plot concerned will automatically have their tenancy agreement terminated.

Doesn't say that the person who had stuff stolen will be evicted; but the person who steals will be.

[cornykev]

Speaking sense who me, I take it all back,  :P I agree with UW about just changing the rules, I forgot to add that bit. Where's the bit about being evicted if you have your stuff stolen, I must have missed that bit.    ???
Edit, got it.

[djbrenton]

That rule about being evicted if you have your stuff stolen also seems rather harsh.

This one?

Theft of produce, plants or other items from a plot without permission of the tenant of the plot concerned will automatically have their tenancy agreement terminated.

Doesn't say that the person who had stuff stolen will be evicted; but the person who steals will be.

Technically it only refers to one person, the tenant of the plot concerned. It's immensely badly worded.

[Fork]

"Animals or livestock must not be kept on site, with the exception of hens or rabbits and then, only with the permission of the Council or its managing agent"

You have a legal right under The Allotment Act 1950....an act passed by Parliament...to have hens and rabbits on your allotment and the Council can not do anything about it....they cannot pass byelaws on an act passed by Parliament either!

[aj]

That rule about being evicted if you have your stuff stolen also seems rather harsh.

This one?

Theft of produce, plants or other items from a plot without permission of the tenant of the plot concerned will automatically have their tenancy agreement terminated.

Doesn't say that the person who had stuff stolen will be evicted; but the person who steals will be.

Technically it only refers to one person, the tenant of the plot concerned. It's immensely badly worded.

As theft is the illegally taking of another person's property; it is implied in the use of the term 'theft'.

[djbrenton]

We know what it's meant to say but as a fact it doesn't say it.

It says that if theft occurs from a tenant then their tenancy will be terminated. There is no mention of the thief ( who might not be a tenant anyway). This is poor English.