Topic: Does rat poison kill cats?

[scruples]

Has anyone had any experience of rat poison and cats?

Is it lethal to cats?

I regularly take my cats to my plot (they use a litterbox and do not mess in others' plots) as they are great for getting rid of mice in my shed, greenhouse etc. I've got a problem with a neighbour at my allotment though, who, despite my cats being very good mousers and hunters is insisting on putting down rat poison to apparently kill rats in his compost bin.

Funny thing is that he complained today that someone had stolen his watering cans and today sprinkled the poison about his plot (next door but one, so to speak). A few months ago he complained that someone had stolen a box of plums he had collected from his plum tree and a few days later I found my gooseberry bush had been weed-killered.

I didn't speak to him about it but I get the feeling he suspected me of the plums and again with the watering cans although I would never dream of doing anything like that. But as I'm there pretty much every day, I think he may think it's me despite the fact that we have recently had a few break-ins and someone (not from the allotments) arrested.

My thoughts are that:

1) he suspects me of stealing his stupid plums and watering cans and he's doing it out of spite or
2) he's fed up with my cats (although he previously said he had no problem with them) and he's doing it out of spite.

Is it legal to just scatter rat poison or does it need to be put in a trap/bait box? I am very worried about my cats ingesting the poison.

I need to raise my concerns but don't know how to (he's quite an authority on the plot).

If anyone has any ideas, I'd be grateful.

Thanks

[Squash64]

Hi Scruples and welcome to A4A.

I started a thread about cats and rat poison earlier this year, you can see it here -

http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,58181.0.html

As I said in the thread, I am not worried about the cats eating the poison but about them catching and eating a rat which had eaten poison. 

Your situation with the neighbour doesn't sound very good, I think if I were you I would leave my cats at home just in case.

[scruples]

Thank you, I'll take a look.

That's my problem really, they catch on average 5 mice/rats/voles a day and they often sit on his compost bin. I haven't heard him complain of rats before today, the same day he complained of stolen watering cans. What got me was that he was chatting to another plot holder (who I get on quite well with) for ages who suddenly came up to me and asked to have a look at my trees at the back of my plot. Bit odd I thought.  I think he'd asked her to have a look at my plot to see if she could see anything.

I have never set foot on anyone else's plot except when they are there and haven't stolen anything in my life. I think my only crime is that I'm new (2years) and am presently there every day, working very hard as I've just inherited the back half of the plot.

To say I'm upset is an understatement but that's nothing to what I would be if anything happened to my cats.

I will leave them at home in the short term but I really need to have a word with him about it but it's knowing how to tackle the subject.

I never imagined allotment life could be so political and spiteful.

[tonybloke]

rat poison must be in a container (one that rats can get into, but not larger animals) it must not be available to other animals. yes, cats eating poisoned rats will affect the cat!
have a word with the environmental services dept of your town council, they should give advice.
rgds, Tony

[Unwashed]

By all means report it to your town council, but enforcement of the pesticide regulations is through either environmental health at the county council or through the health and safety executive - it gets confusing which so you should report it to both.

[Ellen K]

TBH I don't think you should allow your cats to wander over your neighbours plots.  Are you sure that everyone on the site is OK with them ?  I know I wouldn't be.  As for mice, I've used traps in my home but on the plot it is much more live and let live.  The average domestic cat can't catch a rat, they have to be pretty hard feral cats and been taught how to do it by their mother.  They seem to catch a fair few birds though.

Sorry if this offends.  Cats on a leash, just like dogs, I'm afraid :-(

[scruples]

TBH I don't think you should allow your cats to wander over your neighbours plots.  Are you sure that everyone on the site is OK with them ?  I know I wouldn't be.  As for mice, I've used traps in my home but on the plot it is much more live and let live.  The average domestic cat can't catch a rat, they have to be pretty hard feral cats and been taught how to do it by their mother.  They seem to catch a fair few birds though.

Sorry if this offends.  Cats on a leash, just like dogs, I'm afraid :-(

I don't take offence, I'm very aware that not all people are cat people and I do my best to contain them and make them behave (ie litterbox or nothing - which is easy as they are predominantly house cats and cry if they cant find their litterbox). I don't let them wander by choice either and they are becoming fenced in anyway - it's just taking a while to erect the fence. I am regularly checking with people if they are ok with them and all have said they are ok with them including this chap and others seem pleased that they are catching mice/voles/rats/squirrels etc that eat their peas and nest in their sheds. Anyway, there are sooo many strays wandering about which is why I was also concerned about the use of rat poison just being thrown down. There is a poor old mangey looking fox that has a den nearby too and I'm sure that he's been poisoned as he looks in a real state.

To be honest, the cats tend to stay at the back of my plot or the plot either side, again at the back, hunting in the compost bins. They never stray far but this is where there is a break in the fence which needs to be repaired.

I took them yesterday but kept them in a small run and had a good look around for dead rats but couldn't see any.

So far they have caught a couple of rats, a squirrel, mice, voles, shrews and gave good chase to a rabbit. The female is clearly a hunter, the other one tends to follow me about on my plot, watching what I'm doing. As they are predominantly house cats my plot gives them a sense of freedom and safety which is missing from a garden of a house on the road.

[Paulines7]

Something needs to be done about your neighbour's scattering of rat poison.  Not only is it a danger to all mammals but birds too, especially if it is made up of corn. 

What would worry me too would be that the poison could wash out onto his plants. 

 

[scruples]

On the subject of birds does anyone have a problem with birds or bird feed?

I have a few bird feeders hanging around and I overheard this same chap state to his wife that he was going to take them down. She told him to be quiet and told him I was on my plot. I went for a few months with having the hanging basket hook being bent double and a few bird feeders go missing.

I have recently moved the feeders to the back of my plot up higher (8ft high) but noticed that they've been cut with scissors.

The same day he spoke to me about his missing watering cans, he asked me what I was going to do at the back (as I had been contemplating keeping chickens at some point which I mentioned to another plot holder). Before I even said anything, he said that chickens will attract rats as it's the feed that attracts them.

I'm wondering if this is why he's got a problem with the bird feed....and another possibility as to why he's been sprinking rat poision.

I can't see how a couple of bird feeders are going to encourage an entourage of rats, they're all over the place anyway.

Anyone any ideas/experience of this?

Thanks

[scruples]

Something needs to be done about your neighbour's scattering of rat poison.  Not only is it a danger to all mammals but birds too, especially if it is made up of corn. 

What would worry me too would be that the poison could wash out onto his plants. 

 

Have spoken to EHS, apparently our neighbourhood has quite a bad rat problem but the person I need to speak to will call tomorrow.

[chriscross1966]

Bird seed isn't a good idea on an allotment. The birds it will attract will also eat peas and other seeds, I'd personally be tempted to hang someone doing anything that attracted say pigeons unless they were also then trapping them and throwing them into a shredder/under a steam-roller/pie.... If you could attract swifts and martins it'd be good though.... you don't want bee-eaters either BTW

chrisc

[scruples]

Bird seed isn't a good idea on an allotment. The birds it will attract will also eat peas and other seeds, I'd personally be tempted to hang someone doing anything that attracted say pigeons unless they were also then trapping them and throwing them into a shredder/under a steam-roller/pie.... If you could attract swifts and martins it'd be good though.... you don't want bee-eaters either BTW

chrisc

Pigeons don't seem to bother with my plot. Birds I've seen, and which I'm happy to see are robins, blue tits, black-caps and the odd woodpecker. The robins wait for me to throw them the worms I've dug up. Pigeons and magpies tend to meet at the coffee machine (or waterbutts). They congregate and no doubt discuss the best plots to raid and recent meals they've had. ;D ::)

[tonybloke]

bird feeders will attract rats, and their urine all over your food ain't nice!  bird feed is very high in fat and starch, and of high food value to radents.

[Vinlander]

bird feeders will attract rats, and their urine all over your food ain't nice!  bird feed is very high in fat and starch, and of high food value to radents.

Not to mention that rat urine causes deadly Weil's disease.

Gardening Which? was brave enough to print the truth about bird feeders (which is why I'm a subscriber) - there is a clear but small majority among proper (peer reviewed) bird experts that feeding wild birds is pointless at best and probably counter-productive.

I fall back on the old wisdom of long-time gardeners (as recorded by Lawrence D Hills) - that it is sheer madness to feed vegetarian birds on or near a vegetable garden.

It only makes sense to feed your friends - and your avian friends are all carnivores.

So it's probably a good idea to put bacon rind on the washing line - help the robins and wrens - but draw the line there (!) give bird tables a miss.

Many of your favourite pretty-boy birds are omnivores anyway and will also eat bacon rind if they are hungry - and there's less chance they will use it as a bad reason to put off migrating.

Cheers.

[sunloving]

Hi scruples
sorry that you have been struglling with your neighbour.

poison birds and cats aside it sounds like if i understand your posts that someone has been comming onto your plot and doing damage to bird feeders and are spreading a rumor that you are a thief and influencing other plot holders to treat you with supicion.

I would have a chat to someone on your comittee at this early stage and flag up that you are feeling uncomfortable , that you have noticed the damage and are making efforts to contain your cats.
this means that in the future if this tension gets worse that you can return to the conversation and say i need some help with this. try to have a conversation with the plot holder both to find out what they are on about but also to ask them about your bird feeders and if they have been on your plot.it might be that both their and your property was dmaged by a third person and you are both blaming each other.

a small minority of People are by thier nature suspicious and rather than just talk like an intellegent person to you about thier concerns would rather spread rumor and take petty revenge be careful that this person doesnt begin to ruin your time on the plots. address the issues but talk to someone about this if it gets worse.
good luck
x sunloving

[Ellen K]

^^ also you should think about whether you are the problem.  Many people see their allotment quite differently from their back garden but you don't seem to be one of them.  You've dismissed concerns about your cats and bird feeders which suggests you aren't very open to others views.  OK it's your plot and you can do what you want but it is not as simple as that when it impacts on neighbours.  Having your cats running round your neighbours plots then telling them it's for their benefit is frankly outrageous.  And this idea that pigeons ignore your bird feeders isn't credible.

You do need to look at this.  A lady took on a small plot near me this year and I heard her say to another plot holder "will people mind if I feed the pigeons?" and the reply she got was "well, do it when others are not around".  Sometimes, people don't always tell you how it really is.  And fitting in is really important if you intend to stay on the plot long term.

Just a view for you to consider ....

[chriscross1966]

Bird seed isn't a good idea on an allotment. The birds it will attract will also eat peas and other seeds, I'd personally be tempted to hang someone doing anything that attracted say pigeons unless they were also then trapping them and throwing them into a shredder/under a steam-roller/pie.... If you could attract swifts and martins it'd be good though.... you don't want bee-eaters either BTW

chrisc

Pigeons don't seem to bother with my plot. Birds I've seen, and which I'm happy to see are robins, blue tits, black-caps and the odd woodpecker. The robins wait for me to throw them the worms I've dug up. Pigeons and magpies tend to meet at the coffee machine (or waterbutts). They congregate and no doubt discuss the best plots to raid and recent meals they've had. ;D ::)

You don't really want any of those near your plot, apart from the magpies (which will eat baby pigeons amongst other things) most of them are vegetarians and will attack crops, the robins favourite food is worms, which you want to keep alive anyway..... If I had someone attracting vermin like this next to me I'd be complaining to the committee/site warden or whatever. Not being good at confrontations I wouldn't talk to the person doing it, though I might try to find if someone else would..... 

I must admit you seem rather odd, using cats to control vermin then attracting other vermin..... it's an allotment, not a back garden, you have to take the fact that it's an allocated horticultural space into account........

[daitheplant]

I think trying to attract birds to the plot where you have your cats trying to wipe out the local wildlife is inane. I could be wrong, but aren`t voles and shrews protected by law? If so then YOU are doing just as much harm as the idiot scattering rat killer about. It`s about time you reported him to the committee by the way.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Water voles are protected, but not field voles, which can be serious pests of young trees. I get the latter on my plot, but water voles would he highly unlikely. Shrews are insectivores, and wouldn't touch rat or mouse bait.

[pigeonseed]

It is odd to tempt some animals in and kill others. I suppose humans in general do have a rather odd attitude to other animals. Sort of like we've got two labels for them, one marked PETS and one marked VERMIN.