Topic: air rifles

[fi]

on our allotments the committee have hired a pest controller to shoot pigeons. the pest controller uses an air rifle walks around the allotments and shoots at pigeons he sees. he will shoot into allotments and comes to the allotments at any time of day. this man is seriously creepy and i would be weary of him gun or no gun; most of the time i go on my own to the allotment or with children and i do not feel safe.
my questions are; are there laws about times of day and year he can shoot the pigeons? should the committee have run it past the allotment holders first? surely more pigeons will come along and replace the ones shot.

[Fork]

Air rifles are not allowed on our site because of the danger of stray pellets and also the fact that we are surrounded on 2 sides my housing.

There are rules and regulations regarding the use of air rifles and the distance you need to be away from public footpaths etc,so allowing this chap "free range" at any time of day sounds very iresponsible.he should definately not be discgarging this weapon in the presence of children and other adults.

Pigeons are classed as flying vermin in some places and a real nuisance and quite a few places hire this type of person to kill them.They are prolific breeders though and you would need to seek out and destroy nests and eggs too.

I would have thought it only common curtesy to "run it by" the other allotment holders first and at least come up with a suitable time for him to be there..ei,very early in the morning or late evening.

[Unwashed]

This is completely outrageous.  It's completely unacceptable.  There's the obvious danger, and the committee have no right to authorise anyone to shoot anything on your plot.

[Unwashed]

In a bit more detail then:  The Committee manage the common areas of the allotment site, but you are the legal occupier of your plot and unless the sporting rights have been reserved you also own the exclusive rights to shoot stuff on your plot.

What this means is that if Creepy Guy walks across your plot he's trespassing.  The Landlord is entitled to reasonable access, but he has no legitimate right to shoot stuff on your plot, and reasonable access doesn't include any time of the day or night whenever he wants, so this doesn't cover Creepy Guy.

Trespass is a civil matter, but trespass with an air rifle is armed trespass, and that is a criminal offence.

And if he shoots a pigeon on a plot that is an offence under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 because he doesn't have lawful authority, and the police will get involved then too.

Fram BASC: "It is an offence to fire an air rifle pellet beyond the land where you have permission to shoot, unless the occupier of the neighbouring land has also given you permission. "  They don't say what Act creates the offence so I can't verify that one.

I've also found that it's an offence to carry an air rifle in a public place without good cause but again, I can't find what act creates the offence, nor what would constitute a good cause, nor whether an allotment is a public place.

[davyw1]

Read at you leisure

Airguns and the law

Although air weapons, with very few exceptions as outlined above, are not required to be kept on a firearm certificate, they are still classed as firearms and fall under the control of the firearms legislation.

As an airgun shooter, you must make sure that you know the law and keep within it. If

you don΄t, you could find yourself in court facing charges with sanctions ranging from

heavy fines right up to life imprisonment. The following is a list of the laws by which you

must abide and you might be surprised at just how long it is.

• It is an offence to sell or make a gift of an air weapon to a person under eighteen

years of age.

• It is an offence for anyone under eighteen to carry an air weapon unless -

they are under the supervision of a person aged twenty one or more or

they are on private land and have permission from the occupier or

they are shooting as a member of an approved club or

they are shooting at a shooting gallery for miniature rifles.

• It is an offence for a person under eighteen shooting unsupervised on private land to allow any pellets to cross the boundaries of the property.

• It is an offence for any person, regardless of age, to be in possession of an air weapon in a public place without a reasonable excuse. A reasonable excuse might be carrying a gun to and from a target shooting club or to and from land on which you have permission to shoot. It would also include taking a gun to and from a gunsmith for repair or service or taking a new gun home from the dealer.

• It is an offence to trespass with an air weapon, be that in a building or on land.

• It is an offence to have an air weapon if you are a person prohibited from possessing a

firearm by section 21 of the 1968 Act. This section prohibits anyone who has been

sentenced to a custodial sentence of between three months and three years from

possessing an air weapon or other firearm for five years from the date of release.

Anyone sentenced to three years or more is prohibited for life.

• It is an offence to fire your gun within fifty feet (fifteen metres) of the centre of a public

road in such a way as to endanger or impede any road user.

• It is an offence to shoot protected wild birds or animals. When live quarry shooting,

it is your responsibility to make sure that you only shoot legal quarry.

• It is an offence to shoot pet animals. Besides being abhorrent to most people, this is, above all others, the offence that gives all air weapon shooters a bad name.

• It is an offence to have an air weapon with intent to damage property.

• It is an offence to have an air weapon with intent to endanger life.

This may seem a long and onerous list, but it is all no more than common sense. If you use your gun safely and responsibly, you will be in no danger of committing an offence.

In Conclusion

You should always remember that airguns are capable of inflicting severe injuries and even of killing people.

Irresponsible owners have given airgun shooters a bad name by breaking windows,

shooting pets and protected wild birds and even sniping at people. You can do your bit

to help change this perception by using your gun in a way that demonstrates that air

weapon shooters are, in the main, responsible people who pose no threat to anyone. Always follow the guidelines set out in this information.

Useful contacts

The following is a list of organisations which can help you get the most out of your gun.

The National Smallbore Rifle Association

Lord Roberts Centre

Bisley Camp

Brookwood

Woking

Surrey, GU24 0NP

The British Association for Shooting

and Conservation

Marford Mill

Rossett

Wrexham

Clwyd, LL12 0HL

The British Shooting Sports Council

PO Box 11

Bexhill on Sea

TN40 1ZZ

The Gun Trade Association Ltd

PO Box 43

Tewkesbury

Gloucestershire

GL20 5ZE

     

[lincsyokel2]

Fram BASC: "It is an offence to fire an air rifle pellet beyond the land where you have permission to shoot, unless the occupier of the neighbouring land has also given you permission. "  They don't say what Act creates the offence so I can't verify that one.

Firearms Act 1968 C.27

21A
Firing an air weapon beyond premises
(1) A person commits an offence if—
(a) he has with him an air weapon on any premises; and
(b) he uses it for firing a missile beyond those premises.
(2) In proceedings against a person for an offence under this section it shall be a defence for him to show that the only premises into or across which the missile was fired were premises the occupier of which had consented to the firing of the missile (whether specifically or by way of a general consent).

So if you fire across or into premises without consent, you break the law.

Also

50.
Special powers of arrest.
(2) A constable may arrest without warrant any person whom he has reasonable cause to suspect to be committing an offence under section 19, 20, 21 or 47(2) of this Act and, for the purpose of exercising the power conferred by this subsection, may enter any place.

An arrestable offence, as well.

[Jeannine]

I find this totally  disgusting for several reasons as above, Another one,children do not need to see and animal shot for whatever reason, it would be distressing and cruel.In fact I would be distressed to see it.

Given all of the above already said, if I heard so much as 1 shot I would phone the police and tell them that someone was firing a gun near you...I bet they would be there in minutes and I daresay that would be the end of that!! In fact I woud phone if he walked through and his gun was uncovered and ready ti shoot,

We had a racing pigeon come down on our lotties a few years ago, he was slightly injured, we traced the owner from an on line source through his band and he was collected by a pigeon association, a very delighted owner contacted me a few days later with heaps of gratitude for rescuing a very favourite bird that had gone astray in a storm.

Shooting him would have been something.

I truly am at a loss as to why your lotties would have even considered this without asking..what is next I wonder, crop spraying from the air for perennial weeds.

Truly disgusting.

XX Jeannine

[Gillysdad]

They have HIRED this guy, where does the money come from...

This sounds just the sort of task your local Police Support Community Officer would relish.
An evil looking man with an air rifle, wandering around the allotments shooting pigeons. That'll get his/her attention straightaway. Just give your local Cop Shop a ring, the PCSO's will be glad you rang. :)  You don't even have to let on at the allotment that you got them involved. ;)  

[Borlotti]

If he came on my allotment I would hit him over the head with my spade, and probably get away with it as am an OAP.  This is so silly, I go to the allotment to relax and children run about in safety, a man with an air rifle he wouldn't last long with me about.

[Jeannine]

It also makes me wonder what he is charging.. per corpse, per hour, I can't see him making much which would lead me to question his motives,is this extra money on top of a wage or benefit, undeclared income perhaps,or is he someone who just  has a gun and need a place to shoot it off which is really scary.


If in fact this is a genuine occupation similar to say a gamekeeper one would presume he is licensed in some way. If he caused an accident or damage would that not make the committee liable..or is this that professional that he has his own insurance. In that case if he had to pay licensing fees etc I would expect his rates to be very expensive which would bring us back to Giilysdad's question of, where does the money come from?

If licensed he would have all sorts of rules about what not to shoot, walking with an uncocked gun etc.

Think about it, if he is on a lottie and likes to shoot what else is he likely  to encounter..crows,starlings,
cats, foxes , badgers,hawks,robins, rabbits,hedgehogs..does he have the option to kill all those too. Where would it stop.

I would want to know all these things. My vibes have me feeling very uncomfortable though.

I shall follow this post with interest.

XX Jeannine

[davyw1]

At the risk of being on the wrong end of some incoming i regularly go shooting, and have permission to shoot on the allotments and i do so very regularly
As every one knows me and are aware that i am a safe responsible air gun user and abide by the rules i don,t get any come back.
I never shoot during the day, always late evening or the early hours (4am in the summer) when there is no one about and i am often asked by plot holders if i can sort out their pest  problem. If i know i cant hit my target then i don't take a shot, i want my pellet to go into the target and no where else and i don't want anything i shoot to run away wounded either, one shot one dead pest.
So as to the creepy sniper i would be the first to challenge him if he was on the allotments during the day and just random shooting at fair game. He would certainly not get permission to shoot until he can prove that his riffle is zeroed and he can hit what he is aiming at.
I think you may have problems with regard to prosecution if he has permission to shoot on private land if his rifle is legal..
If you want him stopped then approach your secretary and ask if he produced a certificate to say that his riffle is within the law by its power being less than 12 psi. because with a legal air gun he would have to be within 25 meters to drop his target.

Hope i am not going to get grief
 

[Unwashed]

Davy, if Creepy Guy is only shooting pigeons in the common areas, and he's neither walking on nor shooting over other plots, then he's not committing a criminal offence, but the committee can't give the shooter permission to shoot on or over an allotmenteer's plot because those rights are leased to the allotmenteer, so shooting a pigeon on or over a plot is a criminal offence.  As it is you're probably right that a police officer may take some convincing that the situation is in fact exactly the same as if the shooter had walked into your garden at home and started shooting the birds on the bird table, but the same it is.

But whatever, it's an increadibly arrogant thing for a committee to do without getting absolutely everyone on site to completely agree.

But then I feel exactly the same about my council who have poison put down for rats we don't even have, and when I complain of the danger they just remind me of the rule to keep my dogs on their leads.

[lincsyokel2]

But then I feel exactly the same about my council who have poison put down for rats we don't even have, and when I complain of the danger they just remind me of the rule to keep my dogs on their leads.

and the cats dont matter? You cant keep a cat on a lead...........

[davyw1]

I agree with you Simon but the problem is stopping him from shooting any where on the site. Perhaps the person who allowed it did not realize just what the creepy had in mind and thought he was helping reduce the damage the pest where doing with good intentions. The way i see it if no one has a genuine complaint IE he has used the riffle unlawfully then he can continue until the committee stop him. Then if some one does find him committing an offense will they stand up in court to have him prosecuted.
The reason i suggested he produce a certificate of the poundage of the air gun is because he wont have one and will have to go to an armorer to get one which will cost him money, if the gun is over the legal limit the armorer has to make it legal to give him a certificate. This would be the easiest way to get rid of him.    

[fi]

thanks all, i will be sorting this out today. i shall speak with other plot holders for support. if the committee will not cancel this arrangement then i shall ask them to set times and days. i feel upset by the whole thing as i will be the one complaining, i do not want this man to know it is me (this has stopped me complaining, which is pathetic) anyhow i now feel determined to stop this, thanks for you support.
the first thing i knew about the air rifle man was on a Sunday afternoon and my kids were playing in the wood (which is on the allotment) and he was in there shooting. i next saw him at 4.15 pm on a school day. all the worst possible times for safety. the whole set up is wrong.

[irnhed]

@fi - In my opinion it's not pathetic at all.  If you're not comfortable with the guy, it's completely understandable that you're uncomfortable with raising the issue.

The expertise & knowledge is simply awesome - and I'm glad it's given you the knowledge and confidence to proceed.

I read your post open-mouthed - absolutely unbelieveable.  I'd go spare.

Setting times & days feels like a good compromise.

One thing to think about.  I don't know what your site policy on children visiting is, but I'd suggest that you think about not using them as part of your argument (obviously, you're not stated that you will). 

You run the risk of a bolshy 'well, we'll ban the children then' type of response if the committee want to antsy with you.  Just a thought.

[Jeannine]

Fi, before you approach the committee why don't you call the police and find out if it legal you will know better where you stand XX Jeannine

[1066]

Just want to wish you some courage and luck fi in dealing with this, having a set time or day sounds reasonable and a good compromise to me

1066  :)

[Robert_Brenchley]

It would be difficult to shoot on a small area without pellets going outside its boundaries. So what's outside the common area? If it's bordered by plots or gardens, then it's reasonable that some pellets would be likely to go flying over them. If it's farmland, does he have permission there? Does the committee in fact have the authority to hire him?