Topic: All pod and no pea

[gertie50]

Hello All,
I'm new to gardening so I hope someone can help me.

I've grown peas (oasis) for the first time.
20 plants I gave to my Dad, who put them in his garden, me on the other hand put my 20 plants into quality compost in a raised bed. Dads crop has been bountyful, whilst mine are all pod but no pea. The pod seems to be full of gas.
Could it be that peas are best grown in garden soil rather than compost?   :-\

Many thanks, Gertie.

[lincsyokel2]

if the compost had an abundance of mobile nitrogen then the plants will be all greenery and no crop. Peas have the ability to extract nitrogen and store it in there roots, so when they are dead dig the plants back in to get the nitrogen back.

Im not an expert on peas, but i would suspect its not a plant that likes being grown in compost, ditto most legumes.

[plainleaf]

lincsyokel2 you are totally wrong.
the OP's problem is pollenation issue

[Digeroo]

I always give my legumes lots of compost.  I have to admit they sometimes do produce too much leaf but I have never had empty pods.  I wonder if something has got in and eaten the peas.

As a test I have peas growing in 100% manure and they are looking fine.

Do the leaves of the peas look normal or are some curled up or misshapen?

[lincsyokel2]

lincsyokel2 you are totally wrong.
the OP's problem is pollenation issue

i bow to your superior knowledge on peas, i did say i wasnt an expert on them  :D

[jennym]

When you say compost, gertie50, I guess you mean bagged compost bought from a garden centre, multipurpose compost or suchlike? To be honest, I reckon garden soil is much better for growing any veg in than bagged compost. 
Apart from nutrients, one of the biggest problems with bagged compost is its water holding properties which are sometimes poor. When people refer to compost, it's best to find out exactly what they mean - compost bought from a garden centre, or compost made in the garden by composting dead plants etc, which will be a lot richer.
Some of my peas are still developing, some are being picked now. They are all grown in the garden, but in different places, and this has affected their development.
You say there is pod but no pea on yours, do you really mean that there are no peas at all inside, or that they are smaller than your dad's or that they are very tiny indeed?
If the peas are smaller than your dad's, but are visible, the plants may just need more water, and may catch up.
If the peas are non existent or extrememly tiny, then it is possible that there is a problem with fertilisation (rather than pollination). The pea doesn't need insects to pollinate it, so pollination will probably have occured, but if it was particularly cold at the time, or if the plant was too hot and suffered from lack of water at the time of pollination, then although pollen entered the flower, fertilisation may not have fully taken place and so some or all of the the seed (the pea) inside the pod wouldn't develop properly.
You can just water them, leave them and see what happens. Or you can try to sow some more right now, you should get a crop in about 8 to 10 weeks (end Sep).

[lincsyokel2]

this is why in the business 'compost' is the product of 'composting' whereas anything you grow plants in is called 'growing media'. However getting non-professionals to call it 'growing media' is a losing battle    ???


The reason i made the first post on this thread was because there is a definite split between plants that will grow happily in multipurpose growing media, and plants that woudl much rather be stuck in the soil. Legumes are definitely in the soil camp. Its also true that peat based growing media tends to be higher in nitrogen than soil, unless the soil nutrient balance has been tweaked artificially. Further more, the nutrient level in general in standard retail multipurpose  is about twice as high a unmodified soil.

Nutrient levels are measured as electrical conductivity in microSiemens per centimeter (uS/cm) to give a measure of free ions in the media. Unmodified soil is about 300, average retail multipurpose compost is about 600, good quality peat based professional growing media can be as high as 900, and your lotty compost heap could be as high as 2000. So putting nitrogen sensitive, nitrogen fixing plant into high nitrogen media will certainly put a rocket up its bum and cause an explosion of greenery.

[earlypea]

More interesting info, thanks Lincs

Nutrient levels are measured as electrical conductivity in microSiemens per centimeter (uS/cm) to give a measure of free ions in the media. Unmodified soil is about 300, average retail multipurpose compost is about 600, good quality peat based professional growing media can be as high as 900, and your lotty compost heap could be as high as 2000.

This may be an ignorant question, but we are in the basics forum  :P

Where does average retail multipurpose get those 600 microsiemens from?  I thought that most of the nutrients were added to that in an artificial, soluble form so they get used up in 6 weeks or so if it's seeds or pots.  Is there more in it than that and in the long-term?  Because it just seems mainly woody gubbins to me.

[grannyjanny]

Someone on daughters site showed me some compost in one of his 5 bins. It was beautiful stuff. He doesn't buy compost even for seed sowing & all his bins stand on concrete. I think I'd better take a leaf out of his book ;).

[lincsyokel2]

More interesting info, thanks Lincs

Nutrient levels are measured as electrical conductivity in microSiemens per centimeter (uS/cm) to give a measure of free ions in the media. Unmodified soil is about 300, average retail multipurpose compost is about 600, good quality peat based professional growing media can be as high as 900, and your lotty compost heap could be as high as 2000.

This may be an ignorant question, but we are in the basics forum  :P

Where does average retail multipurpose get those 600 microsiemens from?  I thought that most of the nutrients were added to that in an artificial, soluble form so they get used up in 6 weeks or so if it's seeds or pots.  Is there more in it than that and in the long-term?  Because it just seems mainly woody gubbins to me.

well most of the nutrients comes in the peat as part of the natural composting process, but also when its made they add whats called a base organic fertiliser, usually  a 7-7-7. But its added dry, not wet. Far too difficult to mix and bag compost up if its sopping wet!!! The peat usually already is pretty wet to start with. Some retail composts also include whats called a CFR - a Controlled Release Fertiliser. This is a fertiliser that releases its nutrients slowly when the compost reached a certain moisture level, usually achieved when you water the pots ! Peat -free composts get most of there nutrients from added composted green waste rather than peat.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Peas self-pollinate before the flower opens so there's no possibility of a pollination problem. I think we need to know more.

[Bugloss2009]

with my Telephon peas, the pods fill out first, and then peas form inside. It's very annoying  :D. Maybe your variety does the same thing

[Chrispy]

Likewise, I grew Alderman this year, I picked my first plump pod, poped it open and said 'Where are the ******* peas!'
There were peas, but they were tiny, just a couple of mm in size.
Gave the plants a good water, and tried a few days later, loads of peas, and the pods to change shape slightly as the peas swell, so I now know which pods to pick.

[Bugloss2009]

isn't Alderman an "improved" variety of Telephon? obviously not improved the inflated pod thingy

[plainleaf]

Robert_Brenchley  that is not entirely correct. peas are mostly self pollinating.
but not entirely.
As for the empty pods lack pollenation as said is cause.
I have seen this issue described before, a few years back.

[Jeannine]

Oh eck XX Jeannine

[Robert_Brenchley]

I get the occasional pod which hasn't pollinated properly, but this is a lot more than that. Has anyone ever heard of an entire pea crop failing to pollinate?

It's definitely misleading to claim that they're 'mostly self-pollinating'. They're one of the easiest crops to store seed from, precisely because crosses are so rare.

[gwynleg]

My Colossal peas started out with large pods but no peas but left to get on with it, the peas arrived. I didnt get that many - pidgeons I think, sat on the peas and pulled them down - I gave up. This is the third year that I think next year will be the year for peas!

[jennym]

I'd like to (hopefully without upsetting anyone) try and clarify the difference between pollination and fertilisation.
The easiest way to clarify it, it to liken it to human sexual reproduction.
The male sperm and the female egg may be present and introduced to one another, but a pregnancy may not occur.
It's very similar with plants, the flower may be pollinated, but fertilisation may not take place and therefore a seed may not come to form properly.

[plainleaf]

jennym exactly on point!