Topic: What's the difference...

[aquilegia]

... between french beans and runner beans?

I always thought runners were flat and french were rounded, but then I saw flat french beans!

I'm very excited as my runners and dward french are started to set and my climbing french are just starting to flower! (Their white flowers look very pretty alongside the reddy-orange runner flowers and hopefully we might actually get something to eat too!)

[Palustris]

Runner beans are Phaseolus coccineus and French beans are Phaseolus vulgaris.

[Bugloss2009]

and french beans do well when it's hotter and drier, and runner beans do well when it's cooler and wetter

[calendula]

and runners are, theoretically speaking, perennial but not many treat them as such with success

[galina]

They are different species.  One other difference are the cotyledons or seedleaves.  These are the first leaves when the plants sprout, but they are not true leaves, only the two halves of the seed bean.  With runnerbeans the cotyledons stay in the ground, with French beans the cotyledons rise above ground on either side of the stem.

French bean seedling photo with high cotyledons:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/31/62844898_89ffb626c2_m.jpg

[Jeannine]

and speaking of runner beans...they are not kidney beans which I hear all the time. Runners need bees, French beans do not. XX Jeannine

[Robert_Brenchley]

Has anyone tried keeping runners over winter? I'm tempted as it would save bagging flowers and hand pollinating.

[Digeroo]

Runners need bees,

 There is a new bean called Moonlight that is not supposed to need bees, but so far the flowers are dropping off just like the others.

I had some runners which survived the winter one year and had a few early beans off them.   Got fungus on the leaves quite quickly.

[galina]

Has anyone tried keeping runners over winter? I'm tempted as it would save bagging flowers and hand pollinating.

Yes, not difficult.  Cut before first frost, if in doubt, cut well before frost, because you want to keep the stems at ground level alive and ground frost can kill them when there was no actual air frost.  Or you could fleece the base of the plants just to make sure.

Cut a few inches above ground level (3-5), remove the plants and supports, then dig up the roots with quite a bit of soil attached.  Place them in a plastic bag inside another, ie double plastic bag.  Label bag.  Add a bit more soil or leftover compost etc.  and water sparingly.  I make no holes in the bags but water sparingly.  Tie up handles and leave in a frost-free place.  Mine are in the conservatory, sitting in a corner.  Very occasionally water until the compost is damp but not sodden.  The following spring they will start sprouting and you will get two or more stems coming out of every cut stem.  The second year yield is good, but I have never managed to make every root come back.  Only 8 out of 10, but still well worthwhile.  You can go a third year too, but a few more roots will be lost (at least that is what happens here) and the plants are getting weaker. 

[tim]

Just saw this - I'm not sure where kay h has found her information but 'French bean' is normal current UK English for any variety of Phaseolus vulgaris. They are also known culinarily as 'green beans'. Being from the New World there would not have been any 'Old English' terms for such beans. My seed catalogue (King's of Kelvedon, Essex) divides them into 'dwarf French beans' and 'climbing French beans'. Within both sections some varieties are described as 'pencil-podded' types. This refers to their having a round cross section rather than a flat cross section. It does not imply any particular colour. Both green and yellow beans can be pencil podded. 'Runner beans' are any variety of Phaseolus coccineus. They are much more popular here than in the States. King's catalogue for 2009 lists 6 types of climbing FB, 10 dwarf FB and 15 runner beans. There are also 8 favas ('broad beans').

I prefer the 'pencil' French except for the flat & large 'Hunter' or 'Pantheon' type.

Photo has flat & pencil.

[Robert_Brenchley]

That sounds worth a try, thanks.

[Digeroo]

Not all french beans have white flowers  some have pink or purple and I think I have one variety with red.  My favourite climbing bean Mrs Lewis's purple podded has stunning bicolour pink and purple blooms held in clusters of up to 16 at the end of a long stem. 

[galina]

Not all french beans have white flowers  some have pink or purple and I think I have one variety with red.  My favourite climbing bean Mrs Lewis's purple podded has stunning bicolour pink and purple blooms held in clusters of up to 16 at the end of a long stem. 

A red flowering French bean, wow.  Please tell us what variety.  Mrs Lewis' purple podded also sounds very unusual, 16 flowers per node is a lot.  You have some unusual beans there.

[Jeannine]

green beans  when classified into types does not describen the colour,it simply means beans picked before they are mature (dried) so a yellow wax bean is a green bean if picked for eating the pod!!

XX Jeannine

[chriscross1966]

Not all coccineus are runner beans .... concensus of opinion is that the giant butter bean Giganda is a coccineus, the other butter beans are lunatus..... Vulgaris comes in all shapes and sizes.... I've grown loads of types this year and they vary from Speedie (a tiny plant that crops it's pencil-round pods quickly) though mid-height flat podded things, purple-flowered anmd purple podded ones onto climbers with red, blue, green or yellow pods... beans that are white, black, white and black, orangey-brown, small, big, reticulated red, reticulated blueish.....and they're all vulgaris...

chrisc

[Jeannine]

I just bought 5llbs of these beans last week,  they have several names Hiya, Gigandes, Gigantes,Gigantsa,Yeegandes,Elephantes. One of my favourites. XX Jeannine

Just read your post again Chris, I   almost agree with you. But Gigandes is not a butter bean

Runner beans are coccineus as are gigantes
Butter beans are  lunatus
Kidney beans which is what I mentioned are vulgaris

It seems to me that some folks call their runner beans kidney beans  which they are not.

Broad beans and favas are completely differen as Tim said   they technically are Vicia Fava

[Robert_Brenchley]

'Black Magic' runner beans look rather like black Gigantes; I haven't planted them yet. Is there a definition of what constitutes a runner bean?

[chriscross1966]

I just bought 5llbs of these beans last week,  they have several names Hiya, Gigandes, Gigantes,Gigantsa,Yeegandes,Elephantes. One of my favourites. XX Jeannine

Just read your post again Chris, I   almost agree with you. But Gigandes is not a butter bean

Sorry I should have been (bean) clearer... colloquially known as "Giant Butter Beans".... They do look like a massive lima bean after all.... and now RB tells us there's a black version...... gotta get me some of those :D....

chrisc

[galina]

'Black Magic' runner beans look rather like black Gigantes; I haven't planted them yet. Is there a definition of what constitutes a runner bean?

US (and occasionally UK) colloquial definition:  any bean that runs up a support.  Could be ph vulgaris or ph coccineus

Normal UK (and sometimes US) definition: ph coccineus, characteristics see above - perennial, hypogaeal cotyledons, rough surface on beans etc etc

And here is an attempt to 'de-confuse' the term butterbean:  This is a term used in cooking for any very large seeded bean.  Mostly Lima beans ph lunatus, occasionally ph coccineus (like the Gigantes).  The expression butterbean tends to be used for white-seeded large beans.

[galina]

green beans  when classified into types does not describen the colour,it simply means beans picked before they are mature (dried) so a yellow wax bean is a green bean if picked for eating the pod!!

XX Jeannine

Exactly so.  Green beans are also often called 'snap beans' across the Atlantic, because the pods snap in half, as opposed to dry beans where the pods don't snap in half.