Topic: Newbie with weedkiller query and zero gardening experience!

[tarmac4all]

Hello to you all..

1. Wasn't sure where to post a really basic query.. please advise if (a) this is the wrong section, or (b) there is any kind of minimum prior-knowledge expected on here before someone can post! - give it to me straight.. I've got very thick skin!

2. Assuming you've read this far (thanks).. my query relates to weedkiller (roundup) or actually the application of it.

Today I made up approx 3litres of roundup concentrate with water in a basic hand-pump type sprayer (Silverline). Within 15 mins and after covering all of about 6 m2 it was all gone!!

The sprayer hadn't been used for a long time so I'd stripped it down and given it a good clean up with bleach etc and tested it at first with plain water and it seemed ok (to me anyway). I've adjusted the end cap to get the finest spray yet it seems this is still too much. I've seen something on web called a 'Hozelock 4112 cone' but as its only about 3 or 4 quid I wouldn't expect that to solve all my problems..or should I?

Given that the roundup cost an arm and a leg, is there anyway I can make it stretch to a bigger area without having to spend a fortune on commercial-type spraying gear?

All answers appreciated  ;)

[Chrispy]

Welcome to A4A.

15min to use 3 litres, that sound fine, but 6m² you should be able to cover half your plot in that time, you only have to give the weeds a fine spray, not a soaking.

and yes, right section, and no, novices are just as welcome as exsperts.

[chriscross1966]

I hope it was a completely still day.... at that kind of application it's going to drift on the wind a fair bit and there are plenty of food crops that are horribly susceptible to it even at very low doses.... indeed if you're going to use it on a plot you're probab ly better off with a watering can and moving fast, there's a lot less chance of drift

chrisc

[BarriedaleNick]

Personally I try not to use roundup - I do use a bit but I paint it on to bindweed and mares tail....As chriscross has said it does tend to drift in even the slightest breeze if you are using a fine spray.  A lot of folks here will agree and a lot will disagree with the use of roundup!!  ;D
Is your plot covered with perenial weeds?  Why not strim and dig - there are alternatives to the nuclear option...

[markp2511]

I'd have gone for the watering can option too - easier to meter the dose and less chance of upsetting the plot next door.  Saying that, I'm with BarriedaleNick; cut it down and dig it out - envoronmentally friendly, far more satisfying and cheaper.   ;)

[Melbourne12]

I'm a glyphosate fan, but you're right about it being expensive.  I too use a cheapie plastic pressure sprayer, but by trial and (sadly) error, it does drift horribly if you use a fine spray.  I killed a couple of gooseberry bushes when I first started.  :(

I find it best to use a relatively low pressure (ie don't pump it up too much) and a fairly coarse spray.  That way you target the weeds without fear of drift, and it's still economical.  A watering can is good too, but far less economical.

Oh, and what Chrispy said.  :)

[tarmac4all]

wow.. thats a lot of responses in a short space of time..thanks!

Firstly, I know where you're coming from re environmental issues, am whilst I'm all for doing my bit where I can (avid recycler), sometimes it's just not possible. I'm explain my overall predicament further.. I fear this may fall on deaf ears but I'll try anyway..

I'm in UK but have half an acre over in Ireland (Co mayo) which has been neglected for many years and is totally out of control (as are the neighbouring plots I might add). This is an old family plot which I'm going over to for couple of weeks at end of August (there's a cottage on same plot). 

Believe me over the years (since 1996) I've dug up plenty of weeds but the fact is they just kept coming back so result was I gave in.

Now I'm looking at it more as a commercial enterprise and so hoping to get the cottage rented out on a long-term basis, hence I'm looking to get the plot into some sort of presentable state, so that I can then pay someone to maintain it (using income from tenant obviously).

It's a bit like the chicken and the egg as I don't have the money, time or certainly not the endurance required to dig or pay someone else to dig half an acre, hence I can either leave it as it's always been or esle take action!

The appeal of Glypho is that it will kill only what it touches and so will allow me to replant lawns or whatever once the land has been cleared and levelled> A neighbour told me if I chop whats there the seeds will simply regrow and next time I come back I'll have to start again..and so on.

The piece I referred to earlier was in my own garden as I need to clear a small area hence I thought I'd do that as a trial first step before tackling the irish bit in august.

Now reading that back shall I just go and jump off a bridge..or can anyone give me some constructive, practical and achieveable advice?!!!

Please go gently with me..

[Tee Gee]

[quote author=tarmac4all link=topic=61400.msg627482#msg627482

Today I made up approx 3litres of roundup concentrate with water in a basic hand-pump type sprayer (Silverline). Within 15 mins and after covering all of about 6 m2 it was all

Given that the roundup cost an arm and a leg, is there anyway I can make it stretch to a bigger area without having to spend a fortune on commercial-type spraying gear?

[/quote]

I am not sure which sprayer you are using so I googled  and had a look at all their pump sprays and I would say they would all work for you!

My guess is you don't have the nozzle set fine enough!

I would expect a much larger area from 3 litres eg 50sq metres+

If it were me and I was spraying a half an acre I would hire a back pack spray and do it with this.

As chrispy says just mist the plants don' t soak/ flood them.

[tonybloke]

erm, if you got 1/2 an acre to spray, please go to your local agricultural / horticultural colleges, and take a PA1 course.  ;)

[markp2511]

If it were me and I was spraying a half an acre I would hire a back pack spray and do it with this.

If it were me and half an acre I'd do that too, else you'll end up with forearms like Popeye pumping that spray.   :D

If I'm reading it right, you have a cottage there and need to get the grounds in shape?  How about offering free board to a few mates in return for a few days help hitting the garden?  Or offering a free slot in the cottage for a helping hand?  I might even offer my own services for that....  ;)

[Chrispy]

My OH's parent have a plot in Ireland, about 3/4 of an acre in Co Waterford.

They had a bungalow built on it, then they did the ground work themselves, but as they were only there a few weeks at a time it took a number of years before it got completed, and that is also with the odd helper, including myself.

I don't think spraying it yourself is of use, as Roundup just takes to long to take effect for the time you are there.

Realistically, if you want it cleared quickly you will have to either pay somebody else, a local farmer would be the most cost effective, or as mark says, if you have a few good mates that would like a cheap 'working holiday'.

[Robert_Brenchley]

If you glyphosate it and do nothing, the tougher perennial weeds will come back, while the annuals will come again from seed. I've seen plots treated one year, and by the following year, or sooner depending on the itme they're done, they're as bad as ever.

[Unwashed]

Hi tarmac4all, welcome to A4A.

If you want half an acre of lawn it's necessary and sufficient to mow it regularly.  Reguar mowing (and it'll probably take a farmer with a flail mower the first couple of times) will kill the non-lawn species and allow the lawn species to invade, all without the help of a herbicide, and no amount of Roundup will create a lawn if you don't mow it regularly.  That, and what Tony and Robert said.

[electric landlady]

Hello and welcome!

Roundup is very expensive, but you can use generic Glyphosate (it's the same thing) available in Wilkos etc for about half the price. If you want to blast everything in the half acre and there are no plants you want to preserve, it's probably your best best but I think you'd have to apply it several times to really get everything, and I'm not sure how long you'd need to wait before you could replant stuff on the land. I still think digging would probably be quicker - group of mates, working holiday, wash the digging down with pints of Guinness etc...could be lovely!

I don't like using it at all - digging is more thorough and usually quicker, for a small area anyway.  But my brambles are getting so pernicious and are growing in such awkward places that I'm about to give in. I was worried about the spray going everywhere though, and it hadn't occurred to me to use a watering can which is a brilliant idea! So thanks, once again this site comes to the rescue  :D :D

[tarmac4all]

Thanks again for your input..much appreciated.. lots of comments to take in there here's my response..

Tee Gee - Good idea about hiring a back pack. Think I might need a pair of stilts also as the bl***y things are taller than me!

Tonybloke - can see where you're coming from re PA1 etc, but a common-sense approach will suffice for my purpose and believe me if I swung the lance around over my head whilst on the neighbours boundary.. I'd be doing them a favour!

Markp2511 - "I might even offer my own services for that". I've previously advertised it (in the locality over there) as 3 months rent free to anyone who wants to do some landscaping (seriously). I had a couple of people interested but to protect myself from freeloaders I'd insisted on some rental payment up front which I'd refund soon as the work was done.. so their interest faded.

You're straight at the front of the queue now though.. you could even bring Tonybloke along as the foreman!

Seriously though, it could be a great job for anyone who's semi/retired and can throw some time at it.. I'm certainly open to suggestions anyway!

Chrispy - I see what you're saying about time, but I wasn't expecting to do itall in one trip. Wanted to kill it end of august then maybe go back Oct/Nov to clear it (gotta be easier when it's dead than alive), then try and create something better maybe early spring?

Unwashed - I'd be happy to give it to someone local to maintain once it's looking half-decent but at the moment it's too far gone.

[chriscross1966]

, and it hadn't occurred to me to use a watering can which is a brilliant idea! So thanks, once again this site comes to the rescue  :D :D

Get a "different" watering can... my weedkiller one is red, all my others are green or blue......

chrisc

[tarmac4all]

Had a great pm from John Miller (from Vermont. US) which explained the life cycle of a weed - and so the correct time to kill it - in a way that I could fully undertand. I'm sure John wont mind if I share an extract for the benefit of anyone else who may not already know   ;)

Plants are either in an active vegetative growth phase, an active reproductive phase or senescing/dying and most are dormant at some point of the year. All systemic herbicides are slightly modified plant hormones, which is what allows them to be moved around the plant before it kills them. When a plant is growing in the spring it is vegetative and all the plants products, such as hormones or nutrients, are moved throughout the plant. Once the plant becomes reproductive then all the plants products are geared to producing viable seed so things like hormones or nutrients do not go throughout the plant uniformly and will not kill it completely. This phase of growth dominates by the time late summer or autumn comes around. You should really wait until spring to spray as an autumn application may just need to be repeated then anyway!
  Autumn could be the best time to plough and disc though. What a plough does is invert the soil as far down as the plough shear will go so that what was on top would be buried. If it is done properly that should be 25cm down. Most/all weeds will simply not be able to re-grow from that depth and will rot. A farmer will then run a disc harrow (or a spring tine cultivator) over the soil in the spring and create a weed free (at least until seeds germinate) seed bed. When I dig by hand I make sure that I also turn over the soil completely and bury the weeds- I never pick out weeds! It is the same principle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTxr9j-0geI
and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsc6coGeB7s&feature=related I hope you can stand the accent! (They don't do a great job as their plot is too small.

Ploughing well is a great skill, which is why there are competitions, but even I do better than the video and I'm just a market gardener.) There are other options at the side which also illustrate what a plough and harrow are supposed to do. What you do not want to use is a rotovator, of any size, as it will simply chop up the weeds, including pieces of root, and disperse them throughout the soil profile. They can easily re-grow if they are not buried deeply enough

Many thanks for that John as I for one found it really useful  :)