Topic: Carpets on allotments

[Trevor_D]

In the days when people were encouraged to take on more land than they could deal with, just to get plots being tenanted, it was common advice that those areas which couldn't be dealt with immediately should be covered up. One of the materials frequently mentioned was old carpets.

We're still finding that plots which haven't been fully cultivated still have carpet on them, even though the folk who left them there have moved on (ie. given up!). So new people who take on plots have first to deal with layers of old carpet!

But we're also concerned that modern carpets have other problems: they don't rot down and are full of toxic chemicals! From odd references here, I know that a number of sites and councils now ban their use. We'd like to, but don't want to be seen by our members as making up rules for the sake of it.

We have a newsletter coming out soon and would like to offer some informed opinion. And I'd like to raise it at our Borough Federation's meeting - although they don't currently ban the use of carpet there are a number of people who are concerned, as I am.

What's the situation on other sites? All input gratefully received.

[Unwashed]

Trevor, I think you're going about this in exactly the right way.  I'd agree with all of what you say; there are legitimate concerns, and there are also the tenants to think about.

I've encountered old modern carpet and you get left with a mess of non-biodegradable string.  I wasn't aware of a problem with toxic chemicals though - is that right?  I don't think it's acceptable to contaminate the plot like that so I suggest a ban on synthetic carpet is justified.  And as the details of that could easily get forgotten I think a total ban on carpet, synthetic or otherwise, is justified.

But you're right to explain the need for the ban because none of us enjoy needless rules, and a reasonable allotmenteer will support the reasoning.

I'd also give serious thought to a total ban on glass too.  I know greenhouses and shed windows are really useful, but every plot I've had has had tons of broken glass.  On balance though I guess this is too much, but it does make you wonder.

[allaboutliverpool]

When I took over my plot, the bottom 1/3rd was covered in old carpet with bindweed and mares tail growing happily under and through it.

I removed it and cut it into manageable pieces which I took home over a period of weeks and put in in my household waste bins. I take all my non-compostable waste home and dispose of it that way while other plotholders seem to bring their rubbish to the allotment and dump it on their own plot.

Apart from obvious sheet glass, it was amazing how many bottles, both broken and complete were in the soil and I am still removing it 4 years later.

http://www.allaboutallotments.com/index.html

[shirlton]

Carpet is banned on our site because of the toxins in the dye amongst other things. There nowt worse than digging along happily and coming across shreds of old nylon carpet. Its apain the butt

[Borlotti]

Carpet is banned on our site, only a recent ban.  I think the Council man who drove the big machine that turned the allotments over before they were let got very angry when the carpet broke the machine.  The plots are let as seen now.  We had time to get rid of the carpet, it was very heavy and ackward to lift but the Council did provide a rubbish truck so we could dump it on that.  My site is in Enfield, north London. We are not allowed sheds or greenhouses. Sheds because they get broken into and greenhouses the same and I suppose also the problem of glass, although I would have thought that strengthened glass like car windscreens should be OK. I am quite happy with the way the Council run the site so far, we even get free compost and if very lucky woodchip.  The compost is getting very popular and our next delivery will be the end of June, I suppose the word has gone round and they share it between all the allotments.

[Mr Smith]

Totally agree about the nasties that are in carpets, for starters you have the dye you also have the rubbish that is in the foam backing all kinds of hazardous materials go in to that stuff, but I suppose someone will come along and say they only use 'Axminster', ;)

[markfield rover]

When we took on our full size plot it had two layers of carpet,nasty ,sodden ,heavy, smelly ,leaving a layer of foam etc removing it took us two weeks and countless trips to the dump.Plastic or cardboard is a much better option for all concerned,there is no merit in using carpet. Can you tell after 5 years I am still cross and finding nylon.

[Bugloss2009]

even with finest axminster you don't know what chemicals, flame retardants and what nots they have been treated with

[cornykev]

As Borlotti says carpets are meant to be banned on our site, another Enfield site, but no one as far as I know have removed any from their plot, quite a few use it as paths in between the plots and some cover their compost bins with it. I have some covering the back end of my plot and have been rolling it back over the months to work on, I think if its not left down to long its OK, but the problem is people put it down and leave it and by the time someone new gets the plot the carpet has become intwined with the grass and weeds and thats the problem.   ;D ;D ;D

[grawrc]

There are other, biodegradable alternatives so why mess with the land?

[lewic]

Banned on our site, thankfully. Had to dig loads of it up, left by the 'eco friendly' previous tenant!

[cacran]

I use old carpets, cut into long strips to cover my paths. they are wool carpets though. I have seen the mess that the nylon ones make. You never seem to get rid of the nylon stringy bits. I would never leave this in a heap to be overgrown with soil and weeds etc. I have seen them like that on other peoples plots. they must be near on implossible to reeove. I too have seen broken glass just left on plots, walked over and crunched into slivers.If nothing else, it is so cruel to anials, either wild or domestic. Why don't people just clear up their mess, be it on their own plots, or elsewhere? ???

[Robert_Brenchley]

I had a nightmare job getting rid of carpet on my plot when I took it on. the biodegradeable bits had rotted, and what was left was embedded in a mass of couch grass.

[tonybloke]

modern carpets have other problems: they don't rot down and are full of toxic chemicals!

if carpets are so full of toxic chemicals, why do folk purchase them to put in their homes? Isn't the usual advertising image one of a baby laying on the said poison-filled product?

I use industrial cord-type carpet, the stuff you see stuck on the floor in schoolsand offfices, on my plot, as paths between the beds, and as a cover on some beds, when the beds are not in production, asparagus bed over-winter, etc. ( I got a mate who is a professional flooring installer)
The sites that ban the use of carpets also seem to allow the use of 'landscape fabric' on their sites (Possible case of prejudice between folk who can afford ground-covering materials, and folk who can't afford to purchase?)
This stuff is just as much of a nuisance on an over-grown plot as carpet is. Any thing that is left on a plot at end of tenancy should be removed at the tenant's expense.
It's the bad management of sites that's the actual issue here, not the product!!

[cornykev]

I think Georgie has a Persian rug on hers.  :-*     ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[pookienoodle]

I have put carpet on my plot but it is coir with a natural latex backing.
an adjacent plot holder told me it was full of toxins and my veg wouldn't be safe to eat........as he wandered round spraying round up willy nilly. ::)

[gwynnethmary]

When we took over our third of a plot in February it had been covered for four years with thick black plastic then carpet on top of that.  It took our plotholder a couple of weeks to take it all up in stages, but didn't seem to be causing too much of a problem.  In places it had a layer of moss on top which he scraped of, and there some some patches that just had carpet, and we keep finding fibres in the soil as we dig, but it was a whole lot easier for us to dig than  if we'd taken over a weed infested bit of ground thick with  brambles!  And we didn't have to remove it ourselves, or find places to store it!

[lincsyokel2]

modern carpets have other problems: they don't rot down and are full of toxic chemicals!

if carpets are so full of toxic chemicals, why do folk purchase them to put in their homes? Isn't the usual advertising image one of a baby laying on the said poison-filled product?

I use industrial cord-type carpet, the stuff you see stuck on the floor in schoolsand offfices, on my plot, as paths between the beds, and as a cover on some beds, when the beds are not in production, asparagus bed over-winter, etc. ( I got a mate who is a professional flooring installer)
The sites that ban the use of carpets also seem to allow the use of 'landscape fabric' on their sites (Possible case of prejudice between folk who can afford ground-covering materials, and folk who can't afford to purchase?)
This stuff is just as much of a nuisance on an over-grown plot as carpet is. Any thing that is left on a plot at end of tenancy should be removed at the tenant's expense.
It's the bad management of sites that's the actual issue here, not the product!!

The toxic chemicals are released when the carpet rots, and then leeches into the soil. This doesnt happen when you use a carpet at home, only when you leave it to rot on a square of land.

Im afraid its the product that IS the problem.

[gwynnethmary]

so how do we know if there are toxins in the soil that are harmful?  How harmful is harmful?  I know that there have been bits of carpet in the soil as we still find fibres here and there.  Are all our plans to grow lovely veg this summer going to come to nothing?  Are we going to poison ourselves if we eat the stuff we grow?

[Trevor_D]

Thanks for the input.

I think - and much of what's been said here has confirmed it - that the main problem is laziness. People think that because they've covered up a "problem" area, it's somehow gone away and they "don't have to get round to it for a bit"! Carpet - or any other covering for that matter - may be OK for very short-term use, but it gets left and that's when the problems start.

I agree with Tony that it's (partly) a problem of bad management: that's why we as a Committee are trying to introduce some good management! At a recent working party, I spent best part of an hour removing layers of carpet from a disused plot. I stopped counting the layers when I reached 12! (I think there were nearer 19!) That's not good husbandry - it's laziness!

And there are toxins in modern carpets; the materials don't rot down; weed - convolvulus especially - isn't killed. And it looks a mess!