Topic: question on mixing sweetcorn (again)

[N8R]

am planning on growing mini pop this year (for the weee one )as well as the usual swift and supersweet  variety's . as i understand it i cant plant the minipop with the others so how far away would you plant it ,i have a plot of about thirty feet would oppsite ends be sufficient or will i be wasting my time ,
      thankfull of any advise   ,,,, n8r   .....    ;D ;)

[Robert_Brenchley]

I've planted two varieties ten yards apart and had no problems. If you stagger the planting dates that'll make doubly sure.

[Ian Pearson]

If partial cross-fertilisation happens (only possible if flowering at the same time) it just means that some of the kernels on the cobs will not be true to type. This is only a major problem if you want to save seed.

Each one of the tassels that hang out of the flower head is connected to an embryonic kernel, and each must be individually pollenated for the kernel to form. Sometimes you will see a cob with gaps on it. This is where there has been incomplete pollination of the flower head. If the odd kernel is pollinated by a different variety it just means that kernel will be a slightly different size/colour etc. which would not bother me.

[Jeannine]

I don't  totally agree, if you get cross pollination on different families of  corns it will make the corn starchy too. Depending on the types you are growing you can isolate them by date ot by distance,,if in fact you need to isolate,if you grow two different corns of the same family you won't have any trouble even if they cross . If you tell me the types you are definitely growing I can tell you if they will be a problem together.   Supersweets are the ones that cause the trouble as they will cross with all the others,sugar enhanced types and regular hybrids do not cause a problem. Ornamental and popcorn types can cross too so are best isolated
The best rule of thumb is

Hybrid sweets isolate from supersweets but not sugar enhanced
Sugar Enhanced isolate  from supersweets but not hybrid sweets
Supersweets isolate from all others unless the maturity days are 15 or more .
Open pollinated isolate from supersweets but not sugar enhanced or hybrid sweets

I have added  Ornamentals or Popcorn types should be isolated from all others unless maturity dates are 15 days or more.

You can isolate by distance too but in a lottie situation is is difficult as it  quite a long way.


You need to be sure which ones you are planting,many folks think anything hybrid is a supersweet  and it is confusing, you mentioned the usual supersweet varieties, as many of the UK companies do not state on the packet  it makes it worse. I found very few people in England grow these,mostly they grow the sugar enhanced types, it is easy to know ..if you look at the seed,very shrunk and wrinkled then it is a supersweet, if just a dry kernel it is one of the other types.

XX Jeannine

[Ian Pearson]

Jeannine, I bow to your superior knowledge   8)

[Jeannine]

Ian.. not so.. I did agree mostly .

I meant to mention that swift is a sugar enhanced type (se)
Mini pop is regular hybrid or normal sugar variety (su)

These two are OK together... but if you add a supersweet (sh2) you will have trouble.

If you tell me the name I can help you.I don't know all th varieties but know many as I have maintained a list for years.

XX Jeannine

[grannyjanny]

I've got minipop, swift & lark. The latter isn't supposed to need isolating. What do you think Jeannine please?

[realfood]

Interesting! Swift and Lark are usually described as Tender sweets in UK catalogues. T&M catalogue says that you do not need to separate Swift and Lark from other varieties of sweetcorn, but does not go into details of why.
I did ask the same question of Tozer's seeds as they have bred some of the modern sweetcorn varieties, and act as agents for some of the USA sweetcorn breeders, but they did not reply.

[grannyjanny]

I saw lark in Grow Your Own, that's why I bought it.

[Jeannine]

Tendersweet  or se+ is an extra enhanced Sugar Enhanced se corn so it  is classed as a se by sellers, some do go further and call it a Tendersweet..this is often where the confusion to growers starts.. they often think that because it is called a Tendersweet it must be a supersweet .. but it is closer to the se, therefore it a garden situation it should not need isolation although I do know one seller who advertises tendersweets and says for BEST  results keep it isolated from all other corn.The same seller stresses that you MUST  isolate the supersweets .  Personally I  avoid them and save myself the headache.

Your Swift and Lark should fall into the above group and I would say no to isolating.

There is also a Triplesweet  type   and a Tablesweet  type.

To confuse further there are also   synergistic  corns sy which contain kernels of Se x Sh2  on the same cob and these too are OK with the se..they have  25% sh2 and 75% se kernels, they also tolerate cold better than the sh2 types.

There is further still an improved supersweet sh2 sl   which would have to be isolated from everything else.

Then come all the bi colours which fall into any of the categories above in their own right,,same with the white corns.

But to keep it simple corn generally falls into three classes by most breeders and sellers.1. hybrid regular sweet 2. sugar enhanced(includes Tendersweet)  3 Supersweets.   1&2 can share a plot but keep supersweets out unless separated by 15 days maturity..they can of course be mixed with each other.

I perhaps should also mention  what should be called a 4th group , which includes the op open pollinated  corns which a few folks still plant, the ornamental corns  and  the popcorns, these are USUALLY isolated from the others to PRESERVE THE PURITY OF THE SEEDS AND COLOURS . They are not included in the top 3 groups. There is even a bi color open pollinated now that you can save seeds from.All of this group should definitely be isolated from the Supersweets su.

Corn is going quite crazy right now and it changes all the time ,I find it very difficult to keep up.
Hope this helps a bit more,

XX Jeannine

[N8R]

thinking on growing just swift and the mini pop this year will they ok together its all a bit over my head lol   ???  n8r ... ???

[Jeannine]

Yes
 XX Jeannine

[realfood]

Thanks Jeannine, for that explanation of the different types of sweetcorn.

[Robert_Brenchley]

What type is Kelvedon Glory? I've been looking on the net, and can't find anything.

[Jeannine]

Robert it is an all yellow, early ,hybrid, normal sugary  su category 1

XX Jeannine

[Digeroo]

Thanks for the explanation.   It is proving a bit of a challenge to get my head around.

I got several packets of F1 varieties I got cheaply so will have to work out which type I have got, and how far I can manage to isolate them. 

[Robert_Brenchley]

Thanks. I can get a large pack from King's, so it looks like one to go for.

[Jeannine]

I may have written it a bit technical but this may make it easier and a bit more info too...basically ALL HYBRID seeds falls into one of three groups. each group has a  code, this is shown before or after the name of the corn in catalogues although I do find the UK sellers are a bit shoddy about this.I can usually help if you have a name and you don't know the group or code.


su = Normal Sugary types often described in catalogues as Hybrid sweet,they convert  to starch fairly quickly after picking.Old fashioned corn flavour,some sweetness,short shelf life

se and se+ = Sugar Enhanced contains a  gene which modifies the su gene,this increases tenderness and sweetness,conversion to starch is slower so they have quite good shelf life.

sh2 = Supersweets contain even more of the gene which makes them very sweet and very tender, however this does make them need isolating from other corns , The seeds are shrunken and they need more warmth germinate. They have the best shelf life of all.

OP. Open pollinated is the old fashioned corn which are NOT HYBRIDS, they come true to seed each year,they tend to be a bit chewy , these need to be eaten as soon as picked.

 Most popcorn falls into this OP group, but there are a few popcorns which have been hybridised.Ornamental and dry field corns  are OP  corns, these are grown like Old fashioned corn but are left to dry even through frosts and are dried completely , used for decoration, flour and popping, some of these corns come in vibrant colours.

XX Jeannine

[Jeannine]

Robert, bear in mind it has a short shelf life once picked XX Jeanninr

[star]

Wow Jeanine, thanks ;D ;) xxx