Author Topic: help with planning please (Read 4706 times)

Ceri · « **on:** September 02, 2003, 18:54:50 »

OK, I've got the allotment, I'm clearing it to a blank canvas and I'm playing with bits of paper, excel and powerpoint to design a lovely plot. I've come up against what I'm sure are two very basic questions - 1. how do I know how much room different veg needs - I know how far apart to sow seeds etc - but how much room to I leave for the grown up plants. And 2. how many to plant - say I want to eat lots of runner beans - family of 3 - how many plants will I need etc. etc. Lots of books tell me how far apart to plant, none of mine tell me space/yields - I'm all mixed up now!!

legless · « **Reply #1 on:** September 02, 2003, 19:28:18 »

in my RHS 'Growing vegetables book' it has the following info on yields.

based on an average 33ft row (so by working out how many plants would go in a 33ft row you should be able to work out how much per plant i reckon)

broad beans 44lb
asparagus 20lb
dwarf french bean 26 1/2 lb
runner bean 55lb
beetroot 35lb
climbing french bean 55lb
sprouting brocolli 20lb
brussels sprouts 22lb
carrots 26 1/2lb
celariac 35lb
celery 1lb per plant
chicory 40 roots
courgettes 12-14 per plant
endive 33 heads
florence fennel 10lb
globe artichokes 12-15 heads
kale 30 - 35lbs
kohlrabi 20-30lbs
leeks 40lb
onions 22lb
parsnips 33lb
peas (maincrop) 22lb
peas (early) 15 1/2lb
potatoes (early) 22lb
potatoes (second early) 35lb
potatoes (main crop) 40lb
radishes 25lb (can you imagine :D )
rhubarb 35lb
salsify 12 1/2lb
scorzonera 8lb
seakale 8-12lb
shallots 20lb
spinach 20lb
spinach beet 35lb
turnips 20lb

phew!

cdchater · « **Reply #2 on:** September 02, 2003, 19:37:18 »

Hello Cerig

Good questions! - sounds as if I'm in the same position as you (clearing my recently acquired lottie and planning for next year) - and I've been thinking the same things! These books don't give you all the answers, and it will be interesting to hear what the others have to say (sorry I can't help though!)

I'd also like to know whether I should try planting loads of different vegetables in my first year (and see what works best) or just to concentrate on a few vegetables (maybe 5 or 6) and really get to know these and how they grow? I'm just a bit worried about trying to many things at once, having them all go wrong and then losing all my enthusiasm!! (which I have lots of at the moment - I'm even dreaming about lotties...very scary!!!)

Claire

Ceri · « **Reply #3 on:** September 02, 2003, 20:09:01 »

Legless - you are a star - I'll play with the maths tonight!

If I put it on an excel sheet showing yields and plants per row if anyone wantsit (and trusts my maths!) I'm sure Dan Dan the admin man can put it in - I'll post when its done.

Hi Claire - don't worry - I dream of lotties as well - apparently I woke my poorly daughter up last night by calling out 'Emma, come and dig'!!!! I'm going for the 'grow everything I fancy eating' approach, plus pumpkins just for fun - my best friend is American so I learned how to do Hallowe'en big time! (sort of thing that involves me buying cheap barbies, slitting their throats, pouring fake blood and hanging from the trees in the street, eight foot spiders etc) so I've got to have pumpkins. I reckon if you try loads, at least some have to grow!

cdchater · « **Reply #4 on:** September 02, 2003, 20:21:11 »

yes, thanks Legless for the info...ok, maybe the books do give you all the answers, I just don't read the important bits!

Cerig - I'm glad to know I'm not the only one dreaming of lotties! Thought I was going mad by myself! I just can't stop thinking about what I'm going to put where!...but I haven't woke anyone up yet!

I'd like to see a copy of your excel spreadsheet when it's done - the more info I have the better! When I get my allotment plan sorted, I'll ask Dan Dan the very nice admin man to put it on a thread. Dan - Maybe we should have a section for allotment plans and other info when planning an allotment? That way beginner's, like myself, can have loads of info at their fingertips!

I like the 'grow everything I fancy eating approach' but to be honest (and it may sound stupid), I don't like that many vegetables. I'm hoping that having an allotment, and putting lots of time and effort into growing veggies, I'll want to try my produce....see, I knew it sounded stupid! Might try pumpkins for fun...although slitting barbies throat sounds much more appealing!
Regards,
Claire

Ceri · « **Reply #5 on:** September 02, 2003, 21:00:44 »

Right - I've had an initial play with the figures - for 15 ft and 33 ft rows. Will someone mathematical just check I'm doing the formula right, because some of the answers seem a bit odd to me. This is what I'm doing - 33 ft = 396 inches. 396 divided by number of inches between plants. Its not perfect because it doesn't account for the width of the plant but its the best I can do. For french bean Hessayon gives 4 inches between plants, so the formula would be 396/4 - which gives 99 plants in a 33 ft row - can someone who knows tell me if this is right, because it sounds a massive amount to me. Hessayon does say that modern recommendations are much closer than the older textbooks. If someone can check the math, I'll put the sheet out. Cheers

Ceri · « **Reply #6 on:** September 02, 2003, 21:08:02 »

Just a thought claire - if you are not wild about veggies - do you have a fruit tooth - a bit patch made over to rasberries, loganberries, strawberries etc. etc. would be fab.

allotment_chick · « **Reply #7 on:** September 02, 2003, 21:48:24 »

Can I also suggest that whilst planning is great fun and helpful in terms of rotation, don't get too hooked up with it. Gardeners need to retain an element of flexibility. I always plant closer than the packs say to help keep down the weeds and because I prefer to eat my veggies young and small rather than exhibition size.... :D

In your first year I would advise that you grow a little bit of lots of things to see if you like them (I discovered that kohl rabi isn't to my taste at all!), how well they do in your soil (I don't bother with carrots because the soil is stony), what needs gallons of water and what you can afford to leave (after the first year I never water strawberries). Shallots are easier than onions (and I prefer the size of them) etc etc

I grow a lot of my plants at home in modules (got them in packs of 4 from the Pound shop last spring - brill!) and then replant them up the lottie. This gives them a fighting chance against the birds who eat the seeds or the slugs or pigeons who eat the seedlings!

Most seeds will keep until the next year if you keep them cool and dry (good old bicky tins) and you will learn what goes best for you!

Ceri · « **Reply #8 on:** September 02, 2003, 22:44:30 »

A-chick - oh don't say that - I am hooked on planning. Planning I can do in the office when I'm at work and I can't dig. Seed catalogues have taken over from cookery books to read in bed! The weeds I've got are so out of control, the only sense of control I have left is the 'perfect plan'. I know really that by spring/summer it will all be different but perhaps allotments are like good marriages - you plan to and for perfection and settle down to (and accept!) reality later!!

allotment_chick · « **Reply #9 on:** September 02, 2003, 23:57:53 »

Blimey, Ceri - Profound, dude!

And remember - nothing wrong with having something to aspire to!
:D

Ceri · « **Reply #10 on:** September 03, 2003, 01:17:41 »

you're right a-chick - but at the moment I think I'm too much aspiration and not enough perspiration!!

I've done this excel sheet - I would love someone who knows to check it out to see if its more or less accurate. Please e-mail me cerigreves@access-uk.co.uk if you want a look - and please let me know if its all cobblers - I don't have an ego so don't by shy about it! If its cobblers please let me know how to make it not so - I'm pretty sure the maths is right - just don't know how much reality is in it. Cheers

legless · « **Reply #11 on:** September 03, 2003, 01:45:13 »

well i'm not sure if books have all the answers but thats what i've got to go on for a year or too until i've grown stuff myself!

i also dream of allotments and also talk about them a lot, hubby may be coming round to the idea, or may be humouring me ;D

i/ we are going to grow a bit of everything and see what works, its the only way i think. the local old blokes have told me you can't grow red potatoes in our soil. doesn't quite compute with the amount of nice red potatoes i'm digging up!

i'll email you Ceri, but maths isn't my strong point!!

legless · « **Reply #12 on:** September 03, 2003, 12:24:40 »

i reckon your spreadsheet is round about right Cerig, according to the info we have :D

Ceri · « **Reply #13 on:** September 03, 2003, 14:24:01 »

thanks legless - I'll keep adding things then!

legless · « **Reply #14 on:** September 03, 2003, 18:11:49 »

the other important thing with planning is cost. if i plan now for the whole year i can work out when i NEED to buy stuff because if i bought it all in one go i would be very poor indeed! :(

i don't expect my real life plot to match my plans very closely but at least i'll have an idea how much i can fit in and where its going so i can try to look after the soil right.

a thought...... there are plots near mine filled almost entirely with cabbages, do people really eat that many cabbages do you think? ;)

Ceri · « **Reply #15 on:** September 03, 2003, 19:13:56 »

I know what you mean about the cabbages - whats that all about? There are only so many ways to serve cabbage - and its only me in my family who will eat it anyway - a packet of seeds would last me a lifetime!!

allotment_chick · « **Reply #16 on:** September 03, 2003, 20:22:47 »

Hi guys - check out your local garden centres - they may still have their summer sale on where you can get seeds at reduced prices - sometimes very reduced indeed! It is getting a bit late as they will be putting out the Christmas stuff now - but if you happen to be passing.....it could be worth dropping in!

allotment_chick · « **Reply #17 on:** September 03, 2003, 20:56:18 »

Calling Ceri
Hi Ceri just had a peek at your spreadsheet - my only comments as follows.
beetroot - I grow mine in clumps rather than a single about 4" apart
celariac - mine are at 9" - I'll let you know how they do!
onions - if you want small onions you can go down to about 2.5"
radishes - no real final spacing, just pull and eat as they reach the right size!
shallots - I use 9" intervals cos they spread out the ways

Can I suggest you look here - I'm always refering to this site!
http://www.alfresco.demon.co.uk/veg/index.html#pak

Just scroll up and down - its in alpha order

Enjoy!

Ceri · « **Reply #18 on:** September 03, 2003, 21:12:06 »

Thanks a-c. Nice site - will be on my favourties. Another one I think everyone in the world should see is Gavin's site www.keirg.freeserve.co.uk. Absolutely superb for real (as in I've really grown veg in an allotment and this is what happened) info. Gets my award for most helpful website hands down!

gavin · « **Reply #19 on:** September 07, 2003, 17:37:13 »

Blush, blush, pink ears - you'll see the glow in the evening sky.

Cerig - thank you for your comments. Much appreciated! There are I'm sure loads of mistakes and gaps on http://www.keirg.freeserve.co.uk/diary/default.html (the full address) --- but the veg don't seem to mind!

All good wishes - Gavin

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Author Topic: help with planning please (Read 4706 times)