Author Topic: No Dig Raised Beds without Wood Frames (Read 5954 times)

Digeroo · « **Reply #20 on:** November 30, 2009, 17:19:37 »

I do not think Geoff Hamilton invented raised beds. I would not be surprised if it dated back to Roman times and before - I believe they built walls round terracing etc. In Egypt they build little earth walls round growing areas to keep the water and soil in. One has the feeling that little has changed since the times of the Pharoahs.

What is being suggested is that he started a trend, a fashion, an enthusiasm for them. He certainly publicised organic gardening techniques in the UK and many people turned towards that direction under his influence. He certainly started a lot of people asking questions about the need for chemicals. Me included.

Baccy Man · « **Reply #21 on:** November 30, 2009, 17:32:47 »

Raised beds have been used for thousands of years to overcome problems cultivating inhospitable landscapes, the first recorded use of raised beds I know of is in the Hanging Gardens of Semiramis. Using raised beds when there is no need to do so was made popular in the 1970's & is a trend which still continues today.

artichoke · « **Reply #22 on:** November 30, 2009, 17:37:45 »

Walking in Uganda, I noticed raised beds everywhere, fieldfuls of them, miles of them. I believe that they are good for tropical downpours, for instance, as rain drains away down the channels instead of swamping the plots of corn and potatoes etc.

Digeroo · « **Reply #23 on:** November 30, 2009, 18:18:16 »

Quote

Hanging Gardens of Semiramis

I believe these are also known as the Hanging Gardens of Babylon and I think they were a bit before GHs time.

I get rather confused by people who use raised beds to improve drainage on very well drained soil. I use them more for beans etc to increase root depth and moisture on shallow dry soils. So half the people with them on our site have in my opinion got the wrong crops in them. A lot of gardening programmes talk about improving drainage, but forget to mention that your drainage might not need improving.

I read a few years ago that if you dig a hole and fill it with water if the water is still there after 48 hours you have a drainage problem. (I still have not managed to fill the hole). I have just got a meter so I will have to stop now. ;D ;D

manicscousers · « **Reply #24 on:** November 30, 2009, 18:23:21 »

we dig a hole, wait 20 mins and it's full and doesn't drain until summer ;D

betula · « **Reply #25 on:** November 30, 2009, 18:43:42 »

Quote from: Digeroo on November 30, 2009, 17:19:37

I do not think Geoff Hamilton invented raised beds. I would not be surprised if it dated back to Roman times and before - I believe they built walls round terracing etc. In Egypt they build little earth walls round growing areas to keep the water and soil in. One has the feeling that little has changed since the times of the Pharoahs.

What is being suggested is that he started a trend, a fashion, an enthusiasm for them. He certainly publicised organic gardening techniques in the UK and many people turned towards that direction under his influence. He certainly started a lot of people asking questions about the need for chemicals. Me included.

I think you have got it right Digeroo............I know he did start a big trend for them.

What does it matter if people want to use raised beds anyway?

Hardly a crime is it???

Robert_Brenchley · « **Reply #26 on:** November 30, 2009, 20:09:18 »

They were around before, but he may well have popularised them by putting them on the Holy Gogglebox..

mrestofus · « **Reply #27 on:** November 30, 2009, 20:26:17 »

drainage in not only advantage to wood framed raised beds.
but seems that is all most people think is there only benefit.

Digeroo · « **Reply #28 on:** November 30, 2009, 20:30:08 »

They are certainly better for the back, less bending.

powerspade · « **Reply #29 on:** December 01, 2009, 06:46:15 »

I picked up a book in a second hand bookshop in Brecon a couple of months back. It was printed in 1891 and there displayed are raised beds. The writer said that raised bed were at least 5 thousand year old idea. Apparently the Egyptians used them using the paths between the beds for irrigation

1066 · « **Reply #30 on:** December 01, 2009, 07:34:56 »

Quote from: artichoke on November 30, 2009, 17:37:45

Walking in Uganda, I noticed raised beds everywhere, fieldfuls of them, miles of them. I believe that they are good for tropical downpours, for instance, as rain drains away down the channels instead of swamping the plots of corn and potatoes etc.

So there's your answer GrannyAnnie! What with your rain that strips paint anorl. Get building ;) ;D

Unwashed · « **Reply #31 on:** December 01, 2009, 07:43:29 »

Powerspade, were the beds contained by anything, or just heaped up?

Robert_Brenchley · « **Reply #32 on:** December 01, 2009, 17:21:57 »

If you go to Mali, you'll find the opposite; sunken beds. It's an arid area, and by lowering the level of the beds, they maintain that bit extra moisture in the soil. I hadn't thought about back problems; that would be another good reason for building raised beds.

Macy · « **Reply #33 on:** December 02, 2009, 11:08:42 »

Raised beds heat up earlier in the spring as well, it's not all about drainage. I've also found that whilst the beds themselves drain, they drain into the (soil/mud) paths, which is a bit of pain. I guess that's back to the paths question on other threads...

On the original idea, it does sound good, but wouldn't you have to keep updating the cardboard as it rotted? Would chicken wire have the strength to hold it (I guess there's different grades of chicken wire).

GrannieAnnie · « **Reply #34 on:** December 02, 2009, 12:46:21 »

Quote from: Macy on December 02, 2009, 11:08:42

Raised beds heat up earlier in the spring as well, it's not all about drainage. I've also found that whilst the beds themselves drain, they drain into the (soil/mud) paths, which is a bit of pain. I guess that's back to the paths question on other threads...

On the original idea, it does sound good, but wouldn't you have to keep updating the cardboard as it rotted? Would chicken wire have the strength to hold it (I guess there's different grades of chicken wire).

Yes, the cardboard I'm guessing would last a season but, it seems to me if someone was just starting a nightmare of an allotment and wanted to get usable ground in a hurry plus cover over and smother weeds it might be much faster and less expensive than doing wood frames. Or if one wanted a quick compost area for leaves it might do very well. I think the chicken wire would hold if the corner stakes were strong and well-pounded in.

SueK · « **Reply #35 on:** December 09, 2009, 21:37:02 »

Just to go back to the subject of raised beds without frames, such as the ridges in Froglegs' pics, doesn't Joy Larkcom suggest that raising up the level of the soil using ridges - I believe as opposed to using a frame - is equivalent to moving a certain distance further south? Obviously, we are talking northern hemisphere, here. This is on my mind at the moment as I am about to build up a border using compost etc and wondering whether to "ridge it" or not.

Further on the subject of "ridges vs raised beds", there is a community garden in West Leeds which uses "wave ridges" - it's a permaculture thing, in this particular case.

Best regards,
Sue

1066 · « **Reply #36 on:** December 11, 2009, 12:20:22 »

I'd read the Joy Larkcom ridges thing as well. And coudn't quite figure out the benefits as opposed to the effort needed!

charlesdowding · « **Reply #37 on:** December 13, 2009, 14:16:39 »

Perhaps it comes down to personal preference. I have some beds with wooden sides and many more without, both grow good crops but are different to work.
Sided beds are more raised and dry out more in summer, also they can harbour slugs on the inside of the boards. Any plastic lining makes the slug problem worse. Last week my sided beds looked as though they were floating in water but their leeks stayed healthy, especially on the un-dug bed.
I find that beds with no sides are less neat to behold because badgers rifle through the compost and manure and flick it onto pathways, then blackbirds do the same in spring and summer. However this is good for the pathways (mine are just soil, no mulch or gravel or weeds) and benefits the vegetables which root into pathways from both sides. Also it helps drainage by encouraging compost-fed worms into pathways. I found that during the recent horrendously wet weather, it was possible to push heavy wheelbarrows of compost on any path I needed to, on clay soil, and the only really wet paths were around the beds with wooden sides.

chriscross1966 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 17, 2009, 17:54:37 »

If you're doinjg it to get onto a rather scabrous site quickly and still get some production while you deal with the weeds by other means then can I suggest Builders bags....the things that sand and gravel is delivered in is non-returnable unless you take them back to the shop (and there's no incentive to do so as there's no deposit) .... I put out a request on freecycle and got plenty.... they've allowed me to get a whole load of things done in temporary structures that can be used as compost bins, or big grow bags but are usefully portable when empty, double up as a load-liner for my camper-van/minibus conversion so I can pick up all the topsoil and manure I need in them too....

OK they aren't pretty but it's an allotment, not Heligan.....

chrisc

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Author Topic: No Dig Raised Beds without Wood Frames (Read 5954 times)