Topic: Couch Grass

[Moggle]

How evil is this stuff?

I'm thinking it's one of those nasty weeds where any bits of the root will regrow in to a new plant.

There is an allotment plot available near my work (5 poles how big is that in metric?) but the bad news is there it lots of couch on the whole site.

Hasn't been worked in about 3 or 4 years, but is covered with plastic at the moment. I don't mind a bit of hard work to get rid of the couch, cause the site is a sensible distance from both work and home.

How hard would it be to get rid of the couch, or at least get it to a manageable level?

[sandersj89]

Couch does indeed have regenerative roots but I don't think it is as bad as other weeds such as bindweed.

The roots are not as brittle and they do not go as deep into the soil. Indeed couch hates to be burried deep, anything over 18" and it dies away I believe.

The best way to remove is to dig over the soil and carefully remove as much of the root as you can, you can tug great clumps of it out of the ground in one go. The roots are best binned and not composted unless you have a very hot heap are are happy to left them in a pile for a couple of years.

You will probally not clear it in one year but you can make a big dent in it to get it under control.

Constant weeding in the years to come will eventually see it of.

Jerry

[Bionic Wellies]

Our site was covered in the stuff when we first took it on.  Just digging it over and removing the roots (from the site) got that aspect under control (more-or-less).  You can indeed pull huge clumps out in one go and you wull probably get all of the root system.

Word of warning - wear good gloves 'cos the root spikes are very pointed and will pierce quite thick material and will draw blood.

[Mrs Ava]

Oh yes, the shoots of couch are like knitting needles and have really caught me and made me use the sort of language such a delicate young lady as myself really shouldn't be heard muttering!  ;)

One of the couch experts will be more thorough, but I understand now that couch has rhizomes rather than roots, and if these rhizomes are exposed to the air, in particular the hot sun (oh yeah, like that is going to happen in October!)  they dry and die, however, all the little bits that remain underground will grow like the clappers!  We have it on our plot, but I manage to keep it under control by digging it out as I see it.  I also edge my plot with a very sharp spade and keep a moat between growing area and grass paths to try and hinder it's journey onto my plot.  The good thing is, or at least this is what I have found, it seems to be quite shallow rooted, and the roots are long and strong and you can pull them up quite easily.  Take the plot!  You know you want to!!  A little bit of graft, and this time next year we will all be admiring pics of your productive patch of land!  Come on Moggle, what are you waiting for?!?!?

[john_miller]

You got it EJ. If you look at the nodes on the rhizomes (where the shoots also grow from), particularly the ones that were in soil as opposed to ones in a mat of rhizomes, you will see the true roots. These, in my experience, are thin, brown, thread like pieces emanating in all directions from the nodes. I believe the size of the roots may be why couch cannot survive deep burying (not enough reserves to re-emerge) or constant cropping (the food reserves quickly eventually run out without sustained shoot growth).
While you suffer through your removal attempts a piece of trivia to consider: both my uncles, who farmed in Aberdeenshire from the early 1920's until the late 1980's, and the now retired agricultural advisor here (he is 90 now) both have told me that couch grass was unknown in both the U.K. and the U.S. prior to the end of WW II. I mention this as, to me, it lends some authenticity to the account. It is believed that introduction was due to contamination by couch grass seeds of imported desireable grass varieties seen as better fodder than native grasses and certainly not as invasive as couch! What I sometimes wonder is, what stops couch being so invasive in it's native habitat? Anyone any ideas?

[Moggle]

Thanks everyone, sounds like it is a pain, but not enough to be a deterrant. I guess I'd better get looking at it and taking it on so I can get on with the hard work so it's ready for the spring. :D

Thanks especially for the warning about sharpness of the roots, I will try to avoid being stabbed by the evil plant.

Prepare yourselves for lots more stupid questions once I take on the plot and start digging.

First one: How big is 5 poles?

[Jendaffodil]

My chart gives 1 pole to be 16.5 ft so 82.5ft?

[Hugh_Jones]

John`s posting reminded me of that almost (to me) forgotten poem by Thomas Hardy (1840 - 1928)  `At time of "The Breaking of Nations" ` -

   Only thin smoke without flame
   From the heaps of couch grass

More recently it was discussed in H.C.Long`s 1938 `Weeds of Arable Land` and is the subject of MAFF bulletin No. 108, which I think was issued in 1939 or 1940.

Certainly I distinctly remember encountering it during my spells of `digging for victory` long before the end of WW2.

Perhaps it just hadn`t got as far north as Aberdeen

[john_miller]

It sometimes seemed to me that not much got as far North as Aberdeen prior to WWII Hugh!

[Hugh_Jones]

It`s the climate, John.  In those days it seemed that everything Scottish was travelling south and nothing going north, although, looking at our government front bench it seems as though that`s still the case.

[Palustris]

It is mentioned in my copy of Bentham and Hooker Flora of Britain, published in 1930.

[Moggle]

Thanks for the conversion Jendaffodill, I'm not too hot on feet etc (Metric Girl) so I think I will just have to wait till I see it in front of me.

[Multiveg]

Disturbing info  ???

Was reading some back issues of Organic Gardening Magazine, in this instance, April 1996, when I came across an article on couch grass....

"it produces a small amount of a volatile oil containing agropyrone, a chemical which has broad antibiotic properies.... Couch does have soothing diuretic properties. One brand of tinned cat food contains couch grass rhizomes in its turkey and lamb recipe, which no doubt helps urinary, baldder and kidney problems, to which cats are prone"

[busy_lizzie]

We have really helped two couch grass areas in our plot by growing potatoes on them.  Huge couch grass area last year was much improved by potato growing and have just finished digging this years potato patch,  which was only loosely dug when we planted the pots in it and it was brilliant to dig over this time.  :) busy_lizzie  

[Palustris]

Tried that once, all  we got were potatoes with couch grass roots growing through them. I should have photographed them, but did not. Dahlia growing is supposed to be as good for clearing land as potato culture.
I have just cleared an area of about 2 metres by 3 and removed about 25 kilos of couch and ground elder roots. This is after using a well known form of weed killer on the area for most of the Summer at regular intervals. I noticed today that there are both c and g/e leaves beginning to show!
We have enough trouble with urinating and defecating cats without adding diuretics and laxatives to their diet.
Ah well, it all adds to the joy of gardening!
PS. Found it in Culpepper as a native plant used in the treatment of Gout, and enlarged prostate treatment!.
Also been told the only known certain killer is Urine from a female dog on heat!!!!!!!!!!!

[Moggle]

Well saw the plot today, and have decided to take it on. I'll keep you all posted on the results of the couch war  ::)

[Multiveg]

Ask your friends for pigs (think they like couch grass), and for female dogs on heat!

There was something useful to do with couch rhizomes, the following taken from http://www.ghorganics.com/page15.html

Couch Grass Rhizome Tea:
for preventing mildew and fungus disease
To make: Put a handful of fresh rhizomes in a glass pot. Pour 1 quart of boiling water over rhizomes, cover and let steep for 10 minutes. Strain, let cool and use right away.

[Moggle]

Couch war diary day 1:

Spent a couple of hours down at the plot today. Ground quite wet, did a bit of digging any way. Not sure how much of the rhiozome to remove, so putting great clumps of grass in a bin liner as well in the hope that it will rot down in to something useful.

How deep should I be aiming to dig and remove roots, to stop the couch being a major problem?

[Palustris]

All of the rhizome should be removed, if only it was possible. The roots rarely go much deeper than a spade depth, but I'll bet somebody will have found them 30 metres down!

[jamie]

I've had the experience of couch grass penetrating potatoes in my first few years. My main problem with couch grass is at the sides of my plot next to the grass paths. When I recently re-edged my plot there were clumps of couch grass. I've just turned these over and left them. Hopefully winter will take its cause with the rain penetration then freezing and thawing, that will break down the couch grass clumps into something more manageable. Over the years the soil gets better and the couch grass is easy to pull out. Trying to black bin bag clumps of couch may result in the loss of valuable soil (especially in clay soils). I've resigned to the fact that I will never get rid of couch grass completely. I tried to compost it once but this caused more problems, I think couch grass needs to be composted in isolation where it can't spread. I've manged couch grass within my asparagus beds by painting roundup onto the grass leaves, although I'm concerned over the effect that this might have on couch grass that has penetrated my aparagus roots/shoots, although I haven't lost any yet. I certainly think that bind weed and horseradish are more serious problems.

Jamie