Topic: Armatillox.

[grannyjanny]

Does anyone know where armatillox can be purchased from.
Thanks,
Janet

[Eristic]

Before you rush out and buy it for illegal use you really ought to consider just why a multinational company is happy to lose many millions of pounds annually rather than release the required health and safety data that they must have had in their posession for decades.

If after consideration of the above you say sod all health and environment issues, simply buy a bottle of patio cleaner called armilotox. (Spelling questionable).

[grannyjanny]

Eristic. I won't be rushing anwhere but could you please enlighten me as to why I shouldn't buy it. Just curious as I have seen it mentioned on different sites. What is an illegal use?
Janet

[daileg]

i had this very question raised in an earlier topic of moss removal on my decking in the end anything with chemicals should be have a word of cation attached
i went out and bought a presure washer this solved the problem without the need for chemicals if this helps

[adrianhumph]

 hello Janet,
                    you might like to look at the armillatox web site, here is a link,http://www.armillatox.com/, It is an interesting web site with practicle uses for the product, Despite it not being officially allowed on crops, many people do still use it. I use it to combat club root in brassicas, I sterilise my compost with dilute armillatox 3 to 4 days before sowing brassica seed in it. When the plants are large enough i pot them on into 6 inch pots, again into sterilized soil. then when their roots have filled these pots they can be planted out where they are to grow. This gives them a fighting chance , if you know that club root is a problem , then this helps.
 It is also excellent for killing moss on drives & patios  ;D
                                             Adrian.

[Eristic]

Armillotox is notregistered for use as a fungicide therefore anyone that now uses it for this purpose  is using the product illegally and maybe putting their health at risk. It can be still used as a patio cleaner but there are better ways of cleaning a patio.

The makers have removed the product from sale as a fungicide rather than attempt to register it and having the product totally banned. The only reason for an international company to voluntarily lose so much revenue has to be the severe risk of the product being banned outright on health and safety grounds.

Until proved otherwise armillotox is not safe to use.

[Tee Gee]

Eristic is correct to say that the original 'Armillatox' is banned as a 'fungicide' however it is quite legal to use as a 'detergent'

Rather than send an e-mail to the manufacturers or read about it on the internet I phoned them.

I managed to speak to someone in the 'lab' side of the business rather than in sales and was advised as follows;

I asked why their product 'armillatox' could not be used as a fungicide and it was because of EU licensing laws but they said it could be used as a cleaner / detergent.

This promoted the question from me ; Is there any difference in the formula for the original version (fungicide) and the new (detergent) and received a categoric NO!

I then asked; does this mean I can still use it as before?

Reply a categoric Yes!

On a personal note:

Having used it for years I find it fit for the purpose I use it, and that is to flood the planting hole and root ball to prevent 'club root' and I think it deters 'root fly' as well.

I would never ever use it above ground to say something that is suffering from some fungal disease, and even more so if the plant is edible!

( This was my view even before these changes took place)

Finally all I can say is; it is entirely up to the individual as whether to use it or not and like many products (now barred) most of them have been OK providing they were used properly.

BTW I do believe there are some other products on the market that first appeared as one 'brand/product' and were banned then appeared as another 'brand/product.

Personally I don't buy things by brand names as such, I like to look for the active ingredient it is this that has the potential to be troublesome!

So I will say YES to using it!! within certain conditions.


Footnote; I have just used a quarter of a bottle (litre) over the last couple of days on my brassicas as I have done for many years and will continue to do so for many more, unless a proven club root/root fly deterrant comes on the market.

But as always the final descision lies with you!

[Barnowl]

Eristic, Armillatox was approved - as a pesticide back in 2000.

"Now, following research at Bangor University, the Pesticide Safety Directorate has approved Armillatox for vine weevil control."  (Times)

However all pesticides subsequently required re-approval of all their active ingredients under new EC legislation. Hard to be certain, but Macrae's reckon Armillatox's turnover is in the £250-£500k bracket.  Even with double that in sales I think the cost of an EC application would be pretty daunting.

Jeyes Fluid - similar ingredients but perhaps rather better known - is in the same position. I think the problem ingredient is 'tar acids' but not being a chemist......

Just for the record. I use it (diluted as per instructions) as an outdoor soap to wash away the green stains from my patio and occasionally to wash down my greenhouse, but if I got white onion rot up at the allotment I can't say I wouldn't be tempted.  Incidentally the grass around the patio where the wash runs off is completely untroubled -not that that means much.

[Robert_Brenchley]

If it was that dangerous it wouldn't be allowed as a detergent.

[Tee Gee]

Just as an afterthought folks I will let you in on something else I am going to try this year that involves Armillatox;

I the past I have occasionally used Bromophos for Carrot fly prevention and Chlorophos for Cabbage root fly.

Because I have used Armillatox on my brassicas for so many years I find I have a full tub of Chlorophos in my 'medicine' cabinet but I have no Bromophos.

So I researched Chlorophos to see if I could use it in lieu of Bromophos and was quite shocked when I read the potential damage these products could do if handled wrongly.

I couldn't find any information to suit my enquiry so this year I am going to soak the planting drill with an Armillatox mix in lieu of Brompohos and see if my theory of 'smell' affects the flies 'laying' sites i.e. if they don't smell what they want to smell they move on!

My thoughts are; if it keeps cabbage root fly at bay why not carrot fly'??

Watch this space!!

[Baccy Man]

Jeyes Fluid - similar ingredients but perhaps rather better known - is in the same position. I think the problem ingredient is 'tar acids' but not being a chemist......

More specifically both Armillatox & Jeyes Fluid contain phenols.
High concentrations of phenols can cause death if swallowed, breathed in or absorbed through skin. Long- term exposure may cause liver and kidney damage. Skin contact may result in pigmentation, chemical acne and cancer. Skin and lung cancers developed in mice that were exposed to this substance. Exposure can damage the liver and cause headaches, cardiac depression, nausea, vomiting, blurred vision, dizziness, a feeling of intoxication, and irritations of the eyes, nose, mouth, and throat.

Health problems are unlikely unless you are drinking the stuff or you use it on a very regular basis (without wearing appropriate protective clothing as reccommended by the manufacturers). Neither product is currently licensed for horticultural use however some people will choose to use them anyway regardless of any potential health or environmental issues but that is their decision to make & they do so at their own risk. Obviously misusing an unlicensed product on someone elses property is strictly illegal so no contracter would ever use it as anything other than a detergent these days.

[shirlton]

It must be around 10 years ago when I used to belong to the British Fuschia Society. I can remember them saying that a few drops in the watering can would deter the vine weevil

[laurieuk]

Armillatox was brought out in the 1960s by a Mrs Victoria Bray to control Honey Fungus. I treated a tree that had honey fungus in around 1970 and it is still alive today. Mrs Bray changed the name of her product to Bray's Emulsion , but I think that is now off the market. Armillatox is about the only effective control for club root ( as far as I am aware) I think there are far more dangerous things on the market, after all we are not supposed to DRINK it.

It must be around 10 years ago when I used to belong to the British Fuschia Society. I can remember them saying that a few drops in the watering can would deter the vine weevil

[Vortex]

Armilatox is a very effective control for both Club root and White Rot. My father-in-law has used it for years and I've been using it likewise - as a drench 3 weeks before planting out once a year.
Yes it does contain phenols - but then there are a considerable number of plants that concentrate phenols specifically against fungal infection. Everything is dangerous in specific concentrations, CO2 kills at about 13% concentration by volume, CO at slightly less, even water kills, and I'm not talking about the 6 inches you can drown in.
Since it's principly made by concentrating plant extracts, ie by concentrating natural plant phenols, it's about as safe as using nettle tea as an insecticide.
As with everything it's the user's choice.

[amphibian]

If it was that dangerous it wouldn't be allowed as a detergent.

Though even if this was true it ignores dangers to nature, and the environment. A chemical 'safe' for one purpose is not safe for another, nor safe if used, stored or handled inappropriately.

I also think it wise to mention that using unlicensed chemicals on property belonging to your council is almost certainly a criminal offence.

[Unwashed]

If it was that dangerous it wouldn't be allowed as a detergent.

And yet the phosphates in washing powder are responsible for toxic algal bloom.  The problems with DDT were regognized in the 40's, but it wasn't banned in the UK until 1984.  Petrol, bracken pollen, hardwood dust; all naturally occuring, all common in the environment, all carcinogenic.  Foxgloves, monkshood, delphinium, laburnum; all deadly poisonous, and all common garden plants.  Nylon, aspirin, Guiness; all synthetic chemicals, all jolly handy.  Chemical doesn't equate to harmful, available doesn't equate to safe.  Saint Anthony's Fire's no head cold, and the Irish potato famine wasn't just a mild irritation, so the benefits of fungicides are obvious, but the downsides are significant too.  Governments bow to commercial pressure and have a poor record regulating stuff they know to be harmful to people, and they're terrible at regulating stuff that simply harms the environment.