Topic: Planning permission -Sheds

[ODD]

i would appreciate some advice. We are on a long established allotment (over 100 years) and most plot holders  have put up sheds. The parish council who until quite recently were made no objection to this and indeed seemed to encourage it, have now indicated that planning permission is required for sheds over 6x4. I know that PP is not required for sheds on the garden at home under a certain size but on contacting the local District Council have been informed that "Planning permission is required for the siting of sheds or pollytunnels.  Permitted development rights relate to dwellinghouses and not such places as allotments.  Therefore anyone who wishes to erect a shed regardless of size or material will require a planning application to be submitted" .
Is it normally the case that permission has to be sought for every shed?

[shadowdragon]

It could be because of pigeon keepers, some of there lofts on my allotment area (and other plots ive seen) are larger in area than my house!!!

[Unwashed]

Are you sure your parish council are talking about planning permission, or are they simply saying that you need their permission?  Parish Councils don't enforce planning permission (unless they're a Quality Council with devolved responsibility, and I bet they're not) so it really has nothing to do with them.  How are they enforcing this requirement - through a change in the rules?  Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 says they can't make rule changes like that.

There are lots of catagories of permitted development.  You can mostly build a shed at home because of the permitted development that goes with the house, and I can fly a Cross of St. George from my allotment shed because of another permitted development right.  I have a very strong feeling that council-owned allotments have a permitted development right to build sheds - but I'm afraid when I tried to track it down a month ago I didn't find it.  I'll keep looking.

I asked my planning authority about this last year ago and they didn't have a problem with allotment sheds.

[oakmore2]

Don't know what the planning rules are, but we're on a council run site and we didn't get told to get planning permission, just needed written permission from the council (which they gave without any hassle). Hope you find a workable solution.  ;)

[Trevor_D]

It's surely up to whoever runs the site - in this case, the Council - to put in whatever bye-laws are necessary. We always insist that members apply in writing to erect any shed, greenhouse, etc. And if - like with lots of sites, including ours - plots are being split to make them smaller, you could easily end up looking more like a building site than an allotment.

[Unwashed]

It's surely up to whoever runs the site - in this case, the Council - to put in whatever bye-laws are necessary. We always insist that members apply in writing to erect any shed, greenhouse, etc. And if - like with lots of sites, including ours - plots are being split to make them smaller, you could easily end up looking more like a building site than an allotment.

In short, no.  On any allotment it's not legal to apply a new rule to an existing allotmenteer that restricts something they could previously do.  I suspect many councils and allotment associations are unaware of this.

In general a private landlord can put whatever conditions she wants on a new tenancy as long as she respects the tenant's right to exclusive possession and quiet enjoyment of the plot, but on sites managed by or for a council there are a few other restrictions, and on statutory allotments the council only has a power to make rules that are enabled by the Allotments Act, and it's not obvious how that includes rules about sheds, and in any case a tenant has an absolute right to build sheds to house hens and rabbits whatever the rules say.  There are also good reasons not to lord it over tenants by requiring them to apply for permission and that's been the best-practice guidance since the Thorpe Report in the 60's, and is still supported by the 2008 Growing in the Community.

I suggest an allotment site with a shed and greenhouse on each plot would look, well, like an allotment site.

[daileg]

i had recently put my request into the allotment association for the right to place a 20x8 shed / greenhouse combined this was signed under the principle that once built if anyone should be envious are to apply in writing for a quote to the above plot holder

on a serious note i was told that there was no reason why a allotment association can refuse any application to erect a Poly tunnel or shed as long as it would meet the needs of the tenant and wasn't to re sell any produce this was said to me via the chairman in my area at least
if i was you the best thing would be to ask the question directly to who you pay ground rent too

[PurpleHeather]

Allotments laws are different to domestic residential laws.

It seems that a lot of council's turn a blind eye to some constructions called sheds and greenhouses. Provided that no one complains.

There is always some one in the community with little else to do than complain and I suggest that some one has a grudge here and the Council is attempting to resolve the matter in accordance with the rules, regulations and the law.

You can apply for planning permission to cover the entire site which lasts for 5 years.

You could have a chat with your Parish Council and ask them to give you written consent (subject to planning) to have larger sheds. Then apply for a grant to cover the cost, of Planning Consent from the same council.

They will then be able to tell the complainant that the matter is being dealt with.

[manicscousers]

after a complaint by a small minded individual, we had to get pp for our communal polytunnel..the site is surrounded on 3 sides by rugby pitches, used sundaysonly and a 40' leylandii hedge on the other, cost us 210.00 and there was nothing we could do about it  ::)

[Unwashed]

I think this is what I was thinking about:

The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995, Part 12, Class A:

Permitted development
    A.    The erection or construction ... by a local authority ... of—

      (a)  any small ancillary building ... on land belonging to or maintained by them required for the purposes of any function exercised by them on that land ...

I suggest that this allows a council to build itself an allotment shed, and I'd suggest that also gives the council the option to let us build sheds for ourselves.  Sheds under this order can be at least 7m square and 4m tall!

But to answer the original question again, I'd be pretty sure it's something the parish council has thought up for itself and has nothing to do with any requirement of the planning authority.

[spaceman]

Exactly the same problem now on new allotments on the edge of Basingstoke. The borough council says planning permission is needed and the Parish council needs help in proving with allotment holders thats it doesnt need permission. .. and before anyone says its a joke it isn't and its full planning permission not just permission from the council. Can anyone please help with pointing us to the right legistalion to help us argue.

[kt.]

Existing sheds on our site can stay but must fall into new rules as and when they are to be replaced.  A sketch of the plot  showing dimensions and intended location of any newly intended shed or greenhouse must be submitted as a written request to the town council prior to being built.  Maximum shed size for a full plot is 8x6ft,  1/2 plot is 4x6ft.  Maximum sized greenhouses for both are 6x8ft.  As yet nobody has been refused. 

These rules were brought in due to some large structures being erected and being sited anywhere, blocking light from neighbouring plots.  Now they can only be built at the ends of each plot, not down the sides.  So far everybody is abiding by the new rules.  Though no doubt there will be arguments when pigeon lofts need to be rebuilt to current specification.  Some that have been up for years are 30-40ft in length blocking much of neighbouring plots light!  They can stay for now, but when they need replacing.......

[chriscross1966]

We have to get permsision for sheds/gh/polytunnel from the council but it is a formality, and indeed a form letter, I even told them how big the PT is going to be.... I'm putting it on my northern boundary where my neighbour has a shed anyway (I'd have called that cheeky if we hadn't discussed it beforehand and I'd tolkd them I wouldn't mind , as it is it will provide my PT with some shelter in casne of unusual northerly winds....

I thought other than that sort of restriction being put into a tenancy from the start then on agricultural land (which allotments fall into) then agricultural buildings (those that are directly used for agriculture adn the storage of produce and equipment) don't need PP, though if they go over a certain size or have mains power/water then they need to be constructed to building regulations etc....

chrisc

[:(]

The NSALG have looked at this. This is from july last year

The Chairman and the National Secretary, NSALG have argued for some 20 years that planning permission for sheds, greenhouses and poly-tunnels on allotment sites is NOT required.
 
The Legal Consultant has endorsed this argument, citing the High Court Case
 
CROWBOROUGH PARISH COUNCIL - v - SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND WEALDEN DISTRICT COUNCIL
 
[1980] Property & Compensation Reports, 229, High Court (Queen’s Bench)
 
as authority
 
NSALG sought Counsel’s Opinion on this issue, and is delighted to say that Counsel has confirmed the opinion of the Secretary and Chairman; and confirmed the opinion of the Legal Consultant that the Crowborough case is authority for the premiss:

 
Planning Permission is NOT required for sheds, and/or greenhouses on an allotment plot!  Please note: a shed or greenhouse over the standard size of 8 x 6 (available from most garden and DIY centres) that require foundations or are connected to services, might be construed as a permanent structure.

and this is an update

It will be remembered that Issue 1/2010 of Allotment & Leisure Gardener had an article which commenced examination of the controversy as to whether Planning Permission is required for sheds, greenhouses and polytunnels on an allotment plot.
 
Following advice from NSALG to Parish Councils in Hertfordshire, Sussex and South Wales, the related District Councils have revoked the insistence that such Planning Permission is required.
 
The foregoing confirms the previously published opinion of NSALG (15 July 2009) that Planning Permission is not required for sheds, greenhouses and poly-tunnels.

You can contact them, theyre helpful.

http://www.nsalg.org.uk/

[FOPV]

Help!.. I am confused. We  are a community group and have been given use of a piece of land in sheffield for which we want to create a community allotment. the area is 1 acre. We have been told by sheffield planning department that we will need to apply for planning permission to erect some sheds and poly tunnels. I am  confused by all the infomation I am getting. some say i do some say i don't.
Before I have a go at the planning office I need to know if i am right or wrong. I dont want to get the planning officers back up before I start.
We will also need to terrace the site as it slopes so we want to use rock filled gabions to create 3 terraced allotment areas with pathways for a small tractor and easy access for disabled users.

Help.. thanks

[:(]

Contact the NSALG. Theyre the experts.

[lincsyokel2]

Help!.. I am confused. We  are a community group and have been given use of a piece of land in sheffield for which we want to create a community allotment. the area is 1 acre. We have been told by sheffield planning department that we will need to apply for planning permission to erect some sheds and poly tunnels. I am  confused by all the infomation I am getting. some say i do some say i don't.
Before I have a go at the planning office I need to know if i am right or wrong. I dont want to get the planning officers back up before I start.
We will also need to terrace the site as it slopes so we want to use rock filled gabions to create 3 terraced allotment areas with pathways for a small tractor and easy access for disabled users.

Help.. thanks

the above information is correct, and theres nothing confusing about it. The High Court ruled you do not need planning permission, and Sheffield Council is exceeding its lawful authority in demanding it.

[chriscross1966]

Would it be possible that they've made it a condition of the granting of the use that you get their permission regarding structures, that would be legally different to "Planning Permission" which has some pretty strict legal definitions as to when and when it does not apply as linksyokel2 adn unwashed have pointed out, However for any practical purposes the first thing a council is going to do is to hand the responsibility for policing the granting of permission to place structures over to their regular planning folks ("because they deal with this sort of thing all the time") and at that point you'll have to deal with people that make the HSE grit its teeth occasionally......

[oshamo]

I read through the Crowborough High Court case and it's clear that planning permission is not required to have an allotment on agricultural ground.

But I cannot see any reference in the Crowborough transcript to sheds so I'm wondering where the NSALG got the information and can catagorically state that you do not need planning permission for sheds, and/or greenhouses on an allotment plot.

I have a quarter acre private allotment upon which I intend erecting a shed but before doing so can anyone point me in the direction of where I can find a legal definition or court ruling that confirms whether I need planning permission.

Because councils don't necessarily know either, as proved in the Crowborough case, I'm reluctant to ask the councils advice.