Topic: crop rotation and double digging

[legless]

Hi,

I have planned the locations of my beds for my plot, as well as beds for fruit and asparagus and comfrey i will have 4 rotational areas. these being the traditional legumes, brassicas, potatoes and  roots and onions rotations. My plot is quite large nad has been rotavated twice a year for the past 5 years apparently so i'm fairly sure that it isn' too compacted. I will be bale to clear the weeds and dig over the whole plot over the winter but i am not sure i could double dig it all.

when is double digging necessary? and if i only manage to do 2 of the areas, which rotations would benefit most from it?

any help appreciated.

Jo

[gavin]

Hi Jo

I'd double dig what will be your potato bed each year - and add lots of manure.  The potatoes will enjoy the feed, the manure will retain moisture, and you'll have a lovely deep soil for whatever comes next.

That way your whole plot will get a double digging every 4 years - and then, like the Forth Railway Bridge, start again!

All best - Gavin

[Hugh_Jones]

If you really fancy double digging (it`s the quickest way to a bad back later on) by all means do as Gavin suggests, but incorporate as much compostable matter (soft weeds, scrunched up newspapers, cardboard, leaves etc.) as you can into the bottom spit and manure and compost into the top, then never bother to double dig again - it just isn`t necessary for most vegetables.

The exception is runner beans. Make a permanent site for these (don`t rotate it), dig a trench 2 or more feet deep, then backfill, mixing in all your old woollen garments (slow release nitrogen), compost, leaves, newspapers etc. and plenty of bonemeal and allow it to settle over winter. Keep on using this site every year and it will get better and better every year.

[gavin]

But I love digging!!!   :)   It is one of the most satisfying jobs, one I enjoy the most on the plot, so I am a little biassed.

All best - Gavin

PS - and I've been lucky, I suppose.  The only time I damaged my back was sitting at a computer, turning round to pick up my mug of coffee, and sneezing ----- all at the same time.  I'm told men are programmed to do one thing at a time, but two weeks of agony for a tiny little bit of ambition seems just a little over the top.

[legless]

if i do double dig it'll only be once all over the plot, but only one bit each year. I dug over a decent area yesterday and it seemed like excellent soil and the ladies in the next plot told me that the man who had it before the lad who had it this year always put loads of organic matter into the soil and that really shows.

good tip about the runner beans, my grandad always had his in the same spot. so would you suggest starting that bed off soon so it can sort itself out over the winter? woolly jumpers? really?

I enjoy digging too gavin, sad isn't it?  :D

cheers

Jo

[Hugh_Jones]

Very definitely, and as soon as possible.  After all the Runners are (space for space) the most productive crop on the plot and well worth the effort.  If you don`t want to sacrifice your old woolly jumpers try and do as I did.  Get hold of a couple of old woollen flock mattresses and tip the contents into the bottom of the trench.  The old Yorkshire show growers used to use wool shoddy, but I haven`t seen any of that for years.

And if you want a really fantastic bean for quality and crop size try Flare from Marshalls - it`s new this year and it`s the best I`ve ever grown - I`m picking over 10 lbs a week from a 16ft single row

[Hyacinth]

The thing about siting runner bean trenches (a question I've been pondering for a couple of days - I'm thinking of digging out another) is...you have to factor in the shading the beans will give in the summer - saladings will go well amongst and behind them, and you can start off brassicas behind them, which will be sheltered while small and benefit from the N left by the beans...but looking at my garden, can see that if I put another trench where I want to (for aesthetics ::) ) my bush tomato plantation is going to be b*****ed..

So I'm thinkin' and thinkin' -  and thinkin' that perhaps I won't bother :D - Lishka

[campanula]

yep, i like digging too - right now, i am d.digging our potato patch - I go real slow, maybe about 6 square metres a time but I really like to weed and rootle about.
Am hoping to get enough of the patch done so I can get some horse down before xmas.
mmmm....virtuous hot baths.

[Garden Manager]

I grow my veg in raised beds so hardly any digging for me at all.  I generally enjoy digging and do quite a bit for ornamentals in the garden.

I always try to rotate crops, even beans, as I have always been taught not grow the same crop in the same place two years running as it can cause problems.

By the way has anyone tried overwintering the Runner bean roots, like you would dahlias? I was intrigued when i read about this in a magazine.

[Hyacinth]

yep! Richard. I garden in the midlands and stored 2 roots as a trial in the potting shed one year. Not worth the bother - that season's new seeds caught up and, in fact, in terms of yield, overtook the saved haulms. But I believe that, if you go further North it might be worthwhile? Sure someone will say...but is that right that you live south of the midlands? If so, deff. not worth the bother, I'd think?

[Hugh_Jones]

I grow my veg in raised beds so hardly any digging for me at all.

Surely this cannot be the same Richard Filer who, a mere 5 weeks ago, was insisting on the Beeb Boards that double digging was a time honoured necessity, and even suggested that those who did not do so were work shy.

Perhaps we can now convince him that, whatever he was taught about crop rotation, there is absolutely NO necessity for rotating his runner beans, and indeed that a permanent bean trench will not only improve with age, but will result in his runner beans improving year by year.

[ciderself]

Hugh
Are all those woolly jumpers unwanted Christmas gifts???? :o

[Garden Manager]

Surely this cannot be the same Richard Filer who, a mere 5 weeks ago, was insisting on the Beeb Boards that double digging was a time honoured necessity, and even suggested that those who did not do so were work shy.

Perhaps we can now convince him that, whatever he was taught about crop rotation, there is absolutely NO necessity for rotating his runner beans, and indeed that a permanent bean trench will not only improve with age, but will result in his runner beans improving year by year.

Oh yes well that answers THAT question. It definetly IS  the same Hugh Jones then.

OK Right! Here we go then!

If you read my earlier post you will find that I said that while I have raised beds in the veg plot (note VEG PLOT not  ALLOTMENT), that do not need deep digging ,since the soil is not walked on and compacted. I still though practice various types of digging in the ornamental garden, particularly where the soil is tired, compacted or I am making a new bed (as i was at the time of our Great Debate).  I do not routinely double dig areas in regular cultivation, and either single dig or mulch these areas.

I do wish you would

READ MY POSTS PROPERLY

and

STOP MISQUOTING ME

Richard

[Hugh_Jones]

Which part of your posting is that you think I am misquoting? The one set out in the quotation block? It appears to me to be set out exactly word for word. It certainly doesn`t appear to include any of the extra words that you are now adding in your later posting by way of explanation, and which you appear to think I should somehow have read into your first posting. Have they in some way got lost from your original posting before I saw it?

Or are they supposed to have been included in some other posting? Odd, because I have read carefully through all your postings on this site, and those words do not appear in any of them.

So it would appear that I have read your previous posting perfectly correctly, and that I have not misquoted you in any way.

Perhaps if you in your turn read your own postings more carefully you would be able to avoid compounding your own errors by making false accusations in quite unnecessary coloured block capitals and marquee.

[ava_banana]

.............handbags..... :o....six paces......... :P







........is this really necessary.......... :-/

[rdak]

I agree. Surely there's no need to nit pick over what people have said in previous posts.

[ciderself]

Horses for courses surely?

Double dig where its needed - no need when its not

Then everyone's happy - even the plants

Does anyone use unwanted Chrissy presents in the bean trench????

[Mrs Ava]

Well Cinderself, I was thinking about all that wrapping paper going in the trench.  Wonder if the print will cause problems.   ???
Unwanted pressies in the trench, I don't think diamonds will rot down terribly well, along with the Gucci handbag, altho leather so maybe given time, and the chanel perfume will only encourage wasps!  ;)

[Hyacinth]

thanks Ava...wrote something quite similar meself this morning but then didn't 'do an OzZie and hit the 'post' button. :-/

The beauty of Dan's site, for me, has been that, until now, the certainty that the bitchiness of the Beeb site isn't present here.

I hope that this continues. :( Alishka

[ava_banana]

............well if it comes, we will kill it with humour.......... ;)

......life is too short to let it bother you...........

(pregnant dogs...?.......;/  )

interesting..........