Topic: Guerilla gardening with nigella, from the Asian supermarket?

[hellohelenhere]

I can buy nigella seeds ('kalonji', also sometimes called, completely misleadingly, 'black onion seed') in my local Asian grocers for 79p, 400g of seed. It's really nice with chicken, potatoes, more or less any veg... smells like a combination of thyme and strawberry!

I tested the seed, and it's viable. So I'm wondering about doing some guerilla gardening with it, and seeing how much nigella I can spread around Reading. Is there any reason I shouldn't, though? Could it cause a nigella plague?

I also bought basil seed, called 'Tukmaria', which if it's viable and makes nice basil leaf, would be a great bargain - but at my first try, none germinated. It may have been too cold, though, even in our kitchen. I'll try again when it's warmer.

I'm tempted to try growing some other spice seeds - coriander, dill, fennel, caraway, etc - but I do know that the kind sold for seed will produce plants selected for seed, not leaf, so probably not really worthwhile. Aniseed could be interesting but it needs a good hot summer to keep it happy.

Anyone have experience of gardening from the spice rack?

[ACE]

That's how these foreign infestations start. Some silly fool spreading seed around they know nothing about!

[saddad]

Nigella is hardly in the same league as Knotweed or Himalayan Balsam ACE,
I had some on my bottom allotment 12 years ago... still get some coming up every year...  :-X

[ACE]

Nigella is hardly in the same league as Knotweed or Himalayan Balsam ACE,
I had some on my bottom allotment 12 years ago... still get some coming up every year...  :-X

Nigella, I take it you mean that pest 'LOVE IN A MIST'  It takes over a garden, and that is controlled by the gardener, What the hell is it going to do left to its own devices.


It has also been sold to the lady by her local asian grocer under a different name, so is it nigella to start with. They use different names to us.

Knotweed and balsam are only the tip of the iceberg, I know of areas of natural british plants that have been wiped out by escapees.  Spanish bluebells is one and I used to know of an area of adders tongue that has been wiped out because of some selfish person who wanted to see vinca  growing in the wild.

[hellohelenhere]

ACE, you don't have to bite my head off! I made a point of asking here whether there was a reason not to do it - if nigella is something that could grow uncontrolled, then I won't do it! Strewth, that's what I came to pick peoples' brains about!!

Yes, kalonji is nigella, nothing else:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigella_sativa

I would never introduce anything to the countryside, I'm talking about urban spaces, though I appreciate that seed can then travel, due to birds, the wind, etc, so I wouldn't plant any really ferocious pest - even in my own garden.

[ACE]

Sorry. You happened on one of my pet hates. I've know that people really want to do the best for their enviroment and you did really ask if it was a viable idea. I have worked in countryside areas for the last 40 years and have seen the damage done by the good meaning folk.

You can be banned from keeping animals for bad husbandry, its a pity the same does not happen to some so called gardeners. (not a dig at you).

[thifasmom]

nigella grows quite wild in Croydon wild green spaces. its an annul and does self seed crazily but is easy to eradicate. when i moved to my new home six yrs ago it was all over my garden but it pulls up easily and now its only in the areas that i want it to grow, so i wouldn't call it particularly invasive as its easily controlled. also looking through my British wildflower book first published in 1992 its listed in there, its not a native but its certainly naturalised now. so once you sow some in a corner of the garden you won't have to buy anymore from the shop cause it does produce a massive amount of seed :).

by the way i have known that it can be used in cooking can you tell me exactly how to do this?

[Baccy Man]

nigella grows quite wild in Croydon wild green spaces. its an annul and does self seed crazily but is easy to eradicate. when i moved to my new home six yrs ago it was all over my garden but it pulls up easily and now its only in the areas that i want it to grow, so i wouldn't call it particularly invasive as its easily controlled.

In a garden that may be fine but if it is left to grow in the wild then who is going to control the spread.
Conrad Joachim Loddiges introduced Rhododendron Ponticum in 1763 because it was considered a decorative flower & later thought to be useful as cover for game birds on country estates. Since that time it has spread all over the UK, in this area entire hillsides are covered with it an individual plant can cover upwards of 100m2 of ground, grows to 10m tall & produces numerous runners in addition to dispersing up to 7000 seeds in the wind over a very wide area each year.
Nothing grows underneath the rhododendrons and the whole system of herbivores invertebrates and vertebrates and the animals which feed on them vanishes. Even the water of engulfed streams dies. There are no plants left on the banks, therefore no invertebrates, therefore little food for fish. There is no light for aquatic plants. Only the trees taller than the rhododendron survives. When they die, there is no chance of seedling regeneration in the dry darkness beneath the rhododendron. If any light or moisture gets through on the margins of an invasion, a thick, toxic mulch of decay-resistant chemical-laden leaves prevents all but a very few species from germinating. Honey containing a large amount of converted rhododendron nectar is poisonous to humans which causes problems for beekeepers. Rhododendrons also act as carriers for Phytophthora Ramorum (the cause of sudden oak death) which kills oak, beech & ash trees amongst other things.

If rhododendrons had not been introduced 'because they look pretty' then there would not be all these problems which now need to be sorted out. Think carefully before planting anything likely to escape into the countryside.

Apologies for the rant but I have spent an awful lot of time volunteering to clear invasive plants primarily in events arranged in conjunction with the environment agency or forestry commission. It's hard work & would be completely unnnecessary if these plants had not been introduced in the first place.

[hellohelenhere]

Thifasmom, you just sizzle it for a moment in the frying pan before adding other things, just like cumin.
Here's a nice recipe that you could adapt by using a vegetable instead of the chicken, I know you're veggie! http://www.recipezaar.com/Kalonji-Chicken-Vijs-285528

Likewise this one, which I have made and which my husband thought was spectacular:
http://www.recipezaar.com/Kashmiri-Chicken-42029 - the yoghurt at the end makes it rich and creamy.

Here's one that needs no alteration, as it's veggie already:
http://www.recipezaar.com/Zucchini-and-Cretan-Cheese-Pie-With-Nigella-Seeds-314020

There you are, something to do with all those nigella seeds!

[hellohelenhere]

Baccyman, I'm persuaded already that nigella is too invasive to plant outside of a garden.

If I do any guerilla gardening, I'll stick to native or established species - like purple toadflax, for example.

The term guerilla gardening is perhaps a bit provocative, anyway! I'd like to brighten up some of the scraggy areas in my neighbourhood, that's all. :)

[ACE]

Another escapee but at least it is beneficial to some of our moths especially the humming bird hawk moth. Some plants wipe out the species that were growing on wasteland but those species however scruffy and untidy were doing their bit for the eco system feeding insects etc.

Bye the way toadflax spreads like wildfire if not kept in check.

[hellohelenhere]

I've never seen toadflax growing en-masse, usually just a straggly opportunist in walls and so forth, not that I'm contradicting you. I guess you're not a great fan of buddleia, either? What used to dominate rocky wasteground before, was it rosebay willowherb?

[mat]

whats the problem with H.balsam?  my parents have some land by a river, before Balsam the river edges were covered in nettles (ugly, impossble to get rid of and died down in winter...)  now balsam has made its way there from seeds coming down from upstream, its covered in bees, its pretty we just cut it back if it gets too much and it provdies more privacy from the river...  yes its not a "native" but to be honest most of our plants/trees/etc which people consider native are not... there are very few native to the UK since the ice age...

no doubt Ace will accuse "me" now of being one of "his pet hates" too for even suggesting I like the plant!  ;D

oh and nettles are not native either - the romans introduced them... never hear anyone waging a war against them... shame...

mat

[hellohelenhere]

Himalayan balsam is *bad* news... it grows so thick and fast that it smothers all the other vegetation. NOT a good thing.

[Baccy Man]

whats the problem with H.balsam?

Quoting from http://www.open2.net/naturalhistory/invaders/wanted/himalayan_balsam.html

Problems:

This tall, fast-growing, invader grows in dense clumps that prevents shorter native plants from getting enough light to grow underneath it. As a result Himalayan balsam can take over large areas. As well as causing problems for native species, Himalayan balsam also increases the risk of riverbanks washing away because it stops the more long-lived plants such as grasses, which bind the soil with their roots, from growing. This means that when the balsam plants die in the autumn they leave bare patches of soil, which can be more easily washed away by rain.

Himalayan balsam also causes less obvious problems for native species, by luring pollinating insects away from native flowers. Like many flowering plants, Himalayan balsam produces sugary nectar to attract insects. Its flowers produce more nectar than any native European species, making it a more attractive option to pollinating insects such as bumblebees.

How can you measure such subtle effects and find out if Himalayan balsam does affect the pollination native species? Scientists investigated this by placing potted Himalayan balsam plants in experimental areas where native species were growing. This meant they could compare what happened in areas where balsam was or was not present. They counted the number of bee visits to native species and found that bees made fewer visits to native flowers when Himalayan Balsam was present. Less visits by insects, meant less pollination and the number of seeds produced by native species were reduced in areas where Himalayan balsam was present.

[ACE]

There is a lot more involved than just replacing one species with another, nettles are beneficial to a whole host of insects, balsam will supply nectar to the bees, but nectar comes from every flowering plant. I'll leave it up to you to see which one comes out on top.  Buddleia is an opportunist. not many people in their right minds would put it down because of the butterflies it attract. Although you are right not one of my favourites.

Somebody is moaning about 'what the romans did for us' a very good  reason not to to carry on the same.

Leave nature alone. It is only interfering that is putting it in a sorry state. Do you think farmers like the scruffy corners they have to leave as set aside, I bet they would like to cultivate the lot, which would be sprayed, artifially fed etc.

It's a fad, it is also a shame that the brown bread and sandel brigade don't go back to something they were good at. Saving trees and countryside from development.

OH OH just saw your post baccyman, but I will still put this on.

[thifasmom]

Thifasmom, you just sizzle it for a moment in the frying pan before adding other things, just like cumin.
Here's a nice recipe that you could adapt by using a vegetable instead of the chicken, I know you're veggie! http://www.recipezaar.com/Kalonji-Chicken-Vijs-285528

Likewise this one, which I have made and which my husband thought was spectacular:
http://www.recipezaar.com/Kashmiri-Chicken-42029 - the yoghurt at the end makes it rich and creamy.

Here's one that needs no alteration, as it's veggie already:
http://www.recipezaar.com/Zucchini-and-Cretan-Cheese-Pie-With-Nigella-Seeds-314020

There you are, something to do with all those nigella seeds!

thanks for these will definitely give em a try. and will let you know how the family liked them. thanks again and good luck with the guerrilla gardening ;).

[1066]

Thifasmom, Nigella seeds are great in any indian style food, if you make dals or curries, fry some nigella seeds, ginger, mustad seeds, garlic, onions etc, together and then add them on top of your dal or curry - very tasty. I'm now going to creep away so as to stay out of the guerrilla gardening / non-native species debate!!!

[pigeonseed]

in Tooting they sell gorgeous bread with nigella seeds on top. When you toast the bread the nigella seeds are delicious.

this is like two conversation now, isn't it.

[thifasmom]

thanks guys for the further recipe ideas.

this is like two conversation now, isn't it.

 ;D