Topic: Manure

[anemone]

Loads of manure has been dumped by the council at our allotments and we've been told to help ourselves but it will go quickly.

Do we need to leave it to rot a while - how do you tell if it's rotted enough?

Is it okay to put on the beds intended for the beans and potatos at this time of year or is it too late?

[ceres]

Have you checked that it's free from aminopyralid?  Beans and potatoes are just the crops that it likes to kill.

[caroline7758]

Ceres, have you gotan alarm that goes off every time the word manure appears in a post? I wasabout to reply but guessed you'd get there first! ;D

Assuming it is safe (a big assumption!), why not ask the council if they know how old it is.

[anemone]

I don't know, I wasn't there when they dropped it off.  Not that I would've known what to ask!  I will try ringing the council on Monday, is that the only way to check?

A fair few of the established allotments are using it, so I guess they think it's safe. They have it piled up next to beds but not sure if they are going to use it right away or even if they plan to use those beds this year.

If I can't get any answer from the council, would you advise not risking it at all?

[Trevor_D]

A tricky one....

Personally, I think I'd like to ask a few questions , as ceres & caroline have said; but while you're doing that all the other folks are going to be helping themselves and there won't be any left for you!

Normally, manure can still be dug in at this time of year. What I used to do is dig it in while I was preparing beds in autumn, but once the ground became too wet to dig I'd use the manure as a mulch and dig it in during the spring when the ground was OK again.

If it is suspect stuff, then simply leaving it to rot down will have no effect whatever in getting rid of aminopyralid - it needs to be continually dug/rotovated, etc so that no trace of grass remains. (And I wouldn't use it on my potato or tomato beds even if the Mayor wrote to me personally assuring me it was safe!!!)

I've just checked the PSD's website for the latest info - we have our AGM next week - and they haven't updated the advice they were giving last September, which is basically what I've summarised in the previous paragraph.

A few of our plot-holders have been taking manure from our heap again. (Our outbreak last year was very limited and - as we have our own on-site stables - the supply chain can be fairly carefully monitored.) I've discussed it with each of them and they have promised to take note of where they use it and monitor any effects the crops show. Could be interesting....

[Eristic]

Instead of faffing around just grab your share before it all goes then test it. It's no big deal.

[grannyjanny]

My daughter was saying today that the field next to her house has horses in it & the owner of the horses has a pile of straw, from the stable in the field. She throws the straw out each day. My daughter was saying she has asked her to move it because the stench of horse pee is overpowering when she is in the garden. She has been doing this for 2 years now. My question is would it be of any use on the allotment.
Janet.

[tonybloke]

YES!!!

[anemone]

Thanks everyone, I don't think i'll use on the potato beds then.   Eristic - when you say test it do you mean there is an actual test? Or that i should use it somewhere and see what happens?

For now i've moved a small amount onto my plot until I decide what to do... :-\

[ceres]

There isn't a test anemone, at least not for the man in the street.  The PSD, through the Central Science Laboratory, managed with some degree of difficulty and expense, to identify aminopyralid in a manure sample.  It binds so tightly to lignin and is present in such minute quantities that extracting it for test purposes is next to impossible.  I contacted the two laboratories used by DEFRA, their view was that a negative test result is no guarantee that aminopyraild isn't present. 

Dow Agroscience (the manufacturer) has suggested doing a germination test (well they would, wouldn't they!).  A germination test at best MIGHT show you whether the quantity in your pot is contaminated.  It tells you nothing about the rest of the manure sitting in your manure heap.  It's quite likely that seeds sown in contaminated manure will germinate, mine certainly did.  It's when they're growing on that the damage becomes apparent.

But, if you're intent on using the manure, my advice FWIW would be not to use it where you're planting potatoes, tomatoes, peppers, beans and peas or salad leaves.

[grannyjanny]

You do have an alert don't you ;D
Janet

[ceres]

No, I don't.  Since my plot was hit, I've spent a lot of time researching and trying to get the word out as I felt I should try to pass on what I've learned and maybe help others avoid the problem.  But I'm probably as tired of saying the same stuff over and over as the rest of you are of hearing it, so now seems like a good time to stop.   

[Eristic]

There isn't a test anemone, at least not for the man in the street

Of course there is a test for the man in the street. Stick some manure in a 3" pot and plant a broad bean. Most of us are gardeners not scientists. If the bean dies the manure is contaminated. If the bean grows like a good un the manure is good too.

Why make grief over a plie of shit?

[anemone]

Ceres I really appreciate you writing all the info again, I didn't know of the risk and would be gutted to lose all/most of my potatos or beans.

I wouldn't bother at all, but a really nice helpful guy on the site has advised me to use it and I don't want to seem ungrateful for the advice. So I guess there is enough room for a trial of some sort... although you've named pretty much all of my anticipated crops as no go :) Perhaps I'll put some where the brocolli or sweetcorn is to go, I didn't have any luck with these last year so maybe a loss there would be bearable.

Sorry eristic to go on about the manure so much, my other half is pretty fed up hearing about it too :)

[grannyjanny]

Oh no don't stop. What about the newbies. Manure is such an important subject. If we are aware we can just ignore the thread. Oh & well done on all your research.
Janet

[betula]

Ceres has done a great job in educating us all.

Thank you Ceres :)

[thifasmom]

Ceres i think you have done an excellent job spreading the word. have you thought of adding a piece on manure contamination in the wiki, then you won't have to keep typing long posts to explain it all but we along with you will be able to direct manure questions to the wiki link.