Topic: baby Goldfish and Waterfern

[Sprouts]

Hi all
I'm a new pnd devotee and have alredy made more than my fair share of mistakes! I made a new wildlife pond at Easter. Was too late for tadpoles BUT wriggling with midge larvae 6 weeks later!!!!
Took cowards way out and bought 4 99p comets; They did a brilliant job and the midge problem was sorted, but all that high protein food answered the gender question for me!! 2 boys and 2 girls. Ten days ago realised they little swimmers at the pond edge were swimming like fish not midge larvae and indeed there are lots of little fish! Parents are still at it so more on the way.  
Now for the problem; I inherited at couple of tiny bits of water fern and thought it looked so pretty and was good at covering some of the water surface while the water lily got going. Now it has to be cleared twice a week to prevent it blocking out the light from the oxygeators. Checked the collected weed in a bowl and quite a few babies netted with it. It is really hard to separate them from the weed and some seemed to die in the process.
Despite my not wanting fish I am now attached to the adults (even gave them names), but although survival of the fittest is OK for the hazards of pond life, being scooped out by and left to dry out in a pile of weed is not fair!!!
Any advice on how to stop the advance of the waterfern without culling the babies??

[Margaret]

Hiya.Do you mean duckweed? the tiny floating algae type plant that grows and covers the surface? When you remove it,place it in as big a receptacle as you can,with rain or some pond water.You will then have to slowly and carefully go through a small amount at a time,putting that into yet another bowl of water.Eventually you will have checked it enough times to be satisfied there are no more fish there.

As to the future......they will grow at an alarming rate and I presume your pond is not very big? I would suggest you either hunt around for a friend with a large fish pond and give them the adults and some babies,or all the fry,but only when they get bigger.A certain number will get eaten,and certainly will if put into another pond.otherwise you will soon have a situation where they will die through pollution or lack of oxygen,as I assume you haven't a pump or filter? What is the depth? This is another factor for the winter period when you could lose the fish if very cold.

Sorry to be a killjoy.i started off with a reasonable sized pond and a few fish.14 years on I have 2 large ponds with over 100 fish,a nature pond,and babies being born every year which fills me with dread.

The mosquito larvae would only have lived a short while anyway,and other water insects in the pond would have eaten them as well.The fish may well eat the duckweed,and it will die back when the cooler weather comes.

What about a fish pond ?. ;D ;D

[Sprouts]

Hi Margaret
thanks for the advice; a friend told me it was water fern but I've looked on an aquatic plant dealer's website and realise it is called Azolla filliculoides.  I'll persevere with the bowl to bowl technique.
As for the future; you may be right I may be on the slippery slope to turning my garden into a water wonderland!  The current pond is already larger (3mx2mx1m deep in the centre) than intented. There is no pump/filter system but water quality was OK.  When I got the fish I fully intended to give them away to a pond loving colleague in the autumn, but we'll see...................
How big will the babies have to be to survive a Scottish winter?  If they don't have a chance how big do they have to be to survive in my mother's currently unused indoor aquarium?
cheers
Sprout

[Margaret]

Hi again.Your pond is a lot bigger than most people make for a nature pond and as you have not got any wildlife in there yet,why not keep it as a fish pond? It would be well deep enough for the fish in winter.But you would need to get a pump at the very least,and if you can fit a filter as well,so much the better.However,what have you done with the bottom? if you laid soil and planted into it,then that would have to be removed and everything potted up.

The azolla's common name is fairy moss.In winter,much of it will be killed off by the fost and ice,and indeed if you were to get a pump you could push it through into the filter.A very good website for lots of advice,one I have just introduced Anthony to,is www.watergardeningdirect.com

My baby fish survive the winter well if they are able to put on enough fat to see them through,as you should never feed fish in the cold weather.However if you put a few in a tank you need to be very careful that they are not overfed and they need a pump/filter to ensure the water does not get polluted.i overwintered mine this way one year but soon realised if I kept doing that i would need a lake,not a pond!!

Glad to help any way I can with any queries so keep asking!!

[tedd]

Hi Sprouts,

Congratulations on your fish pond and welcome to the wonderful world of water.

You are so successful at breeding fish I suggest you carry on.

With a pump and a filter you will provide all they need for now. If buying a pump I recommend you choose one like the Titan that has a filter mesh case and is capable of handling solids and weed. It took me years of weekly having to clean out blocked pumps before finding the open impellor type. Strangely, none of the books or advice sites seem to cover this and instead recommend prefilters which leave the gunge in the pond before blocking.

Whilst buying a filter, choose one with a UV light in it and a removable cassette to enable you to rinse out the sediment. The UV light kills off the green water and a lot of bacteria.

As Margaret says, your pond is big enough to keep them happy and they would be much happier outdoors than in an aquarium.

In winter you can leave the pump running which help to keep the ice down or use a floating heater.

[Mimi]

I have just been feeding my 4 fish in the pond and noticed how much they have grown.  I also spotted a cute little baby goldfish, then another and another. :o  Now I know what goldfish get up to on those hot and sultry summer nights when no one is watching them ;) It isnt a problem as yet but what will I do with them all if they keep breeding??  Does the size of the pond automatically keep them in check or will I have to start finding some fosterhomes ??? Cant start thinking of digging another pond, as I have only just got over digging this one :-\

[Doris_Pinks]

Congrats Mimi! I too have babies, so excited!! They are growing at an amazing rate too :o  Asked my local fish hexpert and he reakons they will only produce as many as the pond can hold. I am a bit dubious about this as I have a very small pond, and too many fish already ??? The fish shops wont take them anymore, so goodness knows what I am going to do if I have the population explosion I think I have! :'(  DP

[Margaret]

Hello Mimi and Doris.Welcome to the fish breeders club.They can put man on the moon.........i wish they had invented  putting fish on the pill instead.It gets a bit worryiong after a few years of constant additions to the brood.I worry every year.I started off with 14 goldfish that were fast outgrowing their tanks when we moved here,so hubby had to start digging a pond almost straight away.

We moved in august so i was not popular.We must have bought 4 orfe and 2 tench and rescued a few unwanted goldfish and rudd in total.Over 14 years their numbers have increased now to well over 100.I have had to have 2 new ,much larger ponds built,in what is only your average sized garden.So you can imagine what I would like to say to the supposed expert who says they limit their breeding.

B******ks.I end up having to clean my  filters about every 4 days,this hot weather,and the pumps about every fortnight.This year I have at least got enough plants,lilies and weed etc to beat the wretched blanketweed but at times it is a nightmare.Last night by the light of the torch I spied yet more babies.Plenty of cover,you see.I just hope each year that the fish eat the eggs,and the fry when still tiny.Harsh maybe,but I have in the past given them away and they have not been cared for,so I refuse to do that any more. I just have to do the best i can for the growing brood.They do not look too overcrowded at the moment but i do worry.I love my fish but sometimes i wish I had never started this game.We can't move house or go on long holidays any more,because my elderly mum worries about the responsibilty.

Sorry but you did ask!! ;D ;D

[Doris_Pinks]

Hehehe  Margaret!! Thanks for the reply! Might have to turn the plot into a giant fish pond then :o!  Here is a query that my daughter asked me the other day, she said do goldfish lay eggs? I said oh no, they are livebearers, then thought about it and brain went....duh???  am I thinking about tropicals or are goldies livebearers too?

[Margaret]

Hi Doris.No,goldfish are definitely egg layers.Thank goodness,at least when they have spawned there is a good chance the other fish will snack on them!! That saves a multitude being born.

The only tropicals that are livebearers are guppies,mollies,platys and swordtails.All the rest lay eggs.I had a population explosion of guppies when I had them,but at least they weren't very big or long living,unlike goldfish.Some of my rudd and goldfish are getting on for 15+

[Doris_Pinks]

Thanks Margaret, non of our tropical babies ever survive, they are enjoyed by the others in the tank as a wee snack! Now wondering how on earth the eggs survived in my pond! :o What with the other fish and the newts etc. Tis a miracle we have any babies at all! :o

[Sprouts]

Hi All
thanks to Margaret and Tedd for the advice, you have given me a lot of food for thought!!! I have resorted to hauling the azolla out by the handful into a large white bowl of rainwater and gently checking it out; have not caught a single fish this way.  I hope it gets killed of by the winter!!!
The pond is supposed to be a nature pond; it does have soil in the bottom although the original plants are in baskets, but there is a bog section at one end to allow the imaginary froglets to escape without being baked on the hot pebble beach but I haven't spied a blessed frog since last September.  
The fish only cost 99p each in case they didn't survive and now they have names, the babies are all called Randall.  
Its taken me since April to undo the devastation to the rest of our small garden caused by my over-enthusiastic excavation for the pond which got bigger in my attempts to get it more level!!
The fish are healthy, the water quality good and its lovely and clear and the water lily has flowered, I lose track of time out there I spend to much time hunkered down looking for the baby fish.
So................after much heartsearching I've decided to let nature take its course over the winter.  I will give my Mum some of the babies (she has all the proper gear as she had a goldfish called Sharkie who grew huge but wouldn't adjust to a pond so had to live in ever increasing tanks) and she will give a good indoor home to those that make it!! If the frogs do their stuff in the spring I will re-home the adult fish cause I do agree that the presence of 4 growing fish and any surviving offspring plus tadpoles will be too much for a pond with no filtration system.
Meanwhile have identified a corner where the filters might be housed but no outdoor power, have to run it out under the patio................oops sorry thinking outloud.  Will save my pennies and see what happens in the spring, but still feeling a bit like someone who bought a puppy for Christmas!!! Well and truly hooked!
cheers
Sprouts

[tedd]

We also have baby fish - the first we have seen this year. Reading the concerns expressed here for the occupants of your ponds gives us relief. Knowing others are as caring/daft as we are encourages us to carry on.

I suppose we should not be too concerned about their breeding success. Fish and frogs and all the other occupants of our ponds are wildlife. They support lots of other wildlife. For example the local herons enjoyed many tasty fish from neighbouring ponds. The dragonflys and birds appreciate a dip in the water and keep the breeding population of other species up.

It is a fact that back gardens are one of the main supporters of wildlife. With our nest boxes and feeding tables we provide essential habitats for countless creatures that are otherwise under threat from mono culture and intensive farming.

[Sprouts]

Hi
yes, I am a lost cause when it comes to to matters natural.  I made a 40 mile round trip last night at 22.00 to take a baby dunnock (cat attack, mine I'm afraid) to the wildlife rescue centre.  Haven't plucked up courage to call them yet to see if he made it!  
They did have lots of frogs hopping around though!! but my conscience is clear; didn't steal any!
I'm glad to hear there are some soulmates out there as my partner and neighbours think I'm mad!
thanks for the support
Sprouts

[tedd]

Hi sprouts,

The fish do just carry on reproducing but you could remove the net protection so the local herons can start feeding on them.

I have never been fortunate to have more fish than we could house. I am sure other pondlovers around you would be please for a bucket full of orphans.

My butcher has had a pond for more than 30 years and recently filled it in because the herons cleared it for him once again.

Yes I agree. After 30 years experience and prevous raids, you would think he would have taken the trouble to protect the fish.