Topic: not-so-well-rotted-horse manure and fruit bushes

[pigeonseed]

Hi - I've ordered a cherry tree, some raspberry canes and a blackcurrant bush which will arrive around early Nov.

Having just moved to the area, I havent got my own compost yet, so I went and got a load of fresh manure from a stables, and planned to let it rot down under a tarpaulin in the garden till I plant the fruit bushes in Autumn/winter.

Now I know this isnt long enough for it to be considered really WELL rotted - but in your opinion(s) is it going to harm my fruit plants?

[Fork]

Might be too "hot" still.

Needs to rot down for about 6 months at least I reckon.......someone will know different though

[ceres]

Did you ask the stables if they can guarantee that the straw/hay has not been sprayed with herbicide?  If not, or they don't know, don't use it rotted or not.

[pigeonseed]

yes - funny you should say that about the herbicide, I didnt know about it till I googled 'rot manure.'

But it seems now that the herbicide has been found safe for use on veg. And it affects some families of plants, and these fruits weren't mentioned. so I feel less worried about that now.

http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/garden.asp?id=2480

That still leaves the question of whether or not the manure would burn the roots of the bushes/tree. Would be awful if it killed them! I'm really excited about these plants!

[KathrynH]

Last winter I put a load of manure round my raspberry canes just afterI had cut them down. It wasn't all that well rotted at the time but over the winter broke down a bit more and by spring had formed a good mulch for them. By the look of the raspberries I'm getting, they seemed to like it!

[calendula]

the thing is that fruit doesn't really need a lot of manure - you'll get foliage at the expense of fruit, so if you are going to use it then it really should be so rotted down as to be compost

[ceres]

That isn't the whole story pigeonseed.  Read these two threads.  They're long but if you're considering using manure you need to read them.

http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=42629

http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=43062

It's not safe for use on fruit and veg.  It won't kill you if you eat affected produce (they think) but your plants may die, survive and not crop or survive and crop poorly.  Some crops are more susceptible than others, but trust me, NOTHING thrives in manure with hormonal herbicide.  And risking new plants would be folly IMHO.

[jennym]

Before you panic, have a look at the manure and see if it has staw or woodchips in it, I should think there's no risk in woodchips at all.
I think your manure will be fine come autumn, but would use it for rasps and blackcurrant only, not the cherry tree, it doesn't really need it unless your soil is awfully poor.
When you use it for rasps, don't plant them in a deep pile of manure, dig it in well over a wide area. The reason I say this is that if rasps get waterlogged, they become prone to many kinds of stem rots. If you get that, you don't really see the damage until you get a hot spell like this which triggers the fungal disease and the top leaves start curling and the stems dying off - when you examine the base of the stem you see brown marks and  the cane is a goner.
Blackcurrants however can be planted in a pit of muck, they really like manure and lots of moisture.

[ceres]

OK.  One more reply then I'll leave you to it.  I'm beginning to sound like a cracked record.

I should think there's no risk in woodchips at all.

One of the licensed uses of aminopyralid is for control of broad-leaved weeds in forestry.

I think your manure will be fine come autumn

If you mean that if it has been contaminated with herbicide, it will be fine by autumn, it won't be.

Even though products containing aminopyralid are no longer on sale, existing stocks are still being used.  So there is still a huge amount of contaminated manure in the supply chain.  Unless you want the 2 years of failed crops and growing misery that I and many others across the country are going through, check the source of your manure.  If they can't guarantee that the feed or bedding material in the manure has not been sprayed, don't use it.  Can't say it any plainer than that.

[ceres]

And sign the petition to help get our safe manure supplies back:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Aminopyralid/

[littlebabybird]

Before you panic, have a look at the manure and see if it has staw or woodchips in it, I should think there's no risk in woodchips at all.

listen, I'm sorry but wood chip or not the animal that the manure comes from will have eaten hay which could have aminopyralid on it, least be cautious.
lbb

[Trevor_D]

And adding my two-pennorth to Ceres' warnings - we have evidence from our site that hormone weedkiller damage this season was caused by sprays used in 2006!

And it has nothing to do with wood chips. It's grass that gets sprayed, so it's in grass & hay.

[pigeonseed]

Hmm - I thought it would be ok for these crops... the bedding is shavings, not straw. I'm guessing horses don't eat bought in hay in summer, but I don't know much about horses! Now I'm not sure whether to use it or not.

I don't know where else to get soil improving and nourishing stuff from - having just moved, there won't be enough homemade compost. and there's no community composting place near here.

Thanks Jennym for specific info on planting currants, cherries and rasps - good to know.

[star]

Thanks for the link Ceres, have signed the petition ;)

[pigeonseed]

I signed it as well. And I called the stables - they don't use herbicide and the horses hadn't had hay, so it looks like the manure will be ok - well, in a few months anyway!

I also found a stables who offer 4 year old manure free of charge, so now I have to persuade my husband to help me load yet MORE poo into the car!

[PurpleHeather]

According to Hansard on 21/7/08 the license for Aminopyralid Herbicide has been suspended.

The weed killer only starts to take effect when the manure is well rotted, that's when the chemical is released from the vegetable matter holding it.

The re-released weed killer then takes two years to loose it's potency.

Farmers may have some stored so the problem is far from over.

[ceres]

The weed killer only starts to take effect when the manure is well rotted, that's when the chemical is released from the vegetable matter holding it.

The re-released weed killer then takes two years to loose it's potency.

Farmers may have some stored so the problem is far from over.

That isn't quite how the problem arises.  My understanding is that the herbicide is tightly bound to the lignin in the grass, hay or silage eaten by cows/horses.  Parts of the feed pass through the animal largely unaltered and with the weedkiller intact.  It is contact with the contaminated remnants of the grass, hay or silage that causes the damage to plants.  These remnants will break down eventually, how long depends on a number of variables, but it can be up to two years.  As long as there are contaminated remnants in the soil, damage can still occur as the weedkiller is still present.  Once the remnants have rotted away completely the weedkiller is broken down by soil organisms into harmless compounds in a small number of weeks.

You're absolutely right about stored manure - right now all manure is suspect.