Topic: Wine-making with Elderberries

[Baccy Man]

Looking at the trees around here it is approching that time of year again. For anyone who is stuck for a recipe the book 'Wine-making with Elderberries' by T.Edwin Belt contains 6 methods and 115 recipes & can be downloaded from the following links.

As a pdf file.
http://www.winesathome.co.uk/downloads/elderberries.pdf
As a Microsoft Word document.
http://www.winesathome.co.uk/downloads/elderberries.doc
Alternately you can view it online here.
http://www.winesathome.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?&t=1009

[jennym]

Erm, is it me? Started reading the pdf file and found it almost unintelligible. So many references to fruits flowers and various chemicals?

[Baccy Man]

The pdf file lists the 6 methods first then the recipes start on page 6 each recipe is a list of ingredients followed by which method you use to make it.

The book was written in 1981 the way chemicals are used has changed since then people tend to use ready made yeast nutrient rather than making their own.

These ingredients are listed in every recipe

1 -3 3mg Benerva
1 tablet yeast nutrient
1/2 tsp ammonium phosphate
1/2 tsp yeast energiser

You can substitute these ingredients with 1 vitamin B1 tablet and 1 teaspoonful of yeast nutrient per gallon. (some brands of yeast nutrient already have vitamin B1 in them so you could omit the B1 tablet too....check the label).
The acids & pectic enzyme are standard in most wine recipes & should be used as described. The flowers & fruit are just additional ingredients in that particular variation.

[jennym]

OK, consider wrist slapped, should have read it through!  ;D
Thanks for the explanation.

[Baccy Man]

I have had the paperback for years along with several other books by Thomas Edwin Belt so I am more familiar with the way he writes his recipes.
I find that his book "plants unsafe for winemaking" is also very useful as a reference book.

[GrannieAnnie]

What is the purpose of the ammonium phosphate? 

[Baccy Man]

Ammonium phosphate contains fermentable nitrogen (N) at 25g/HL = 50mg/L N and phosphorus. Nitrogen produces the protein needed to make new yeast cells.
Most if not all yeast nutrient you buy these days already contains ammonium phosphate.

[GrannieAnnie]

Ammonium phosphate contains fermentable nitrogen (N) at 25g/HL = 50mg/L N and phosphorus. Nitrogen produces the protein needed to make new yeast cells.
Most if not all yeast nutrient you buy these days already contains ammonium phosphate.

Thank you. Somehow I knew you'd know the answer!

[GrannieAnnie]

Picked our elderberries today since the catbirds were feasting. Into the freezer they went and will strip them from their little stems tonite. Planning  to freeze some for pies and make one gal. of wine to be blended with grape wine later.

[puppy2]

We picked some elderberry's along country roads and about a week ago I started a gallon of elderberry wine using a recipe I found on the Web.
When I transfer ed the must to a gallon jug as directed the bucket had a sticky glue-like on the inside of the bucket. It was also transfer ed to the inside of the neck of the gallon jug when I checked it today. It is almost imposable to get off, the only way we found was with boiling hot water.
Any one know anything about this,  and is this wine safe to use
Thanks
   

[GrannieAnnie]

The green slime is from the stems and unripe berries. It can be taken out with a straw. Cannot remember what it takes to wash it off, maybe vinegar?? The wine is safe. Mine is perking along just now.

[GrannieAnnie]

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?t=21777
Found this post re one fellow's method of avoiding the green goo. I haven't tried it.

[puppy2]

First this is a great forum, I have already learned much from it.
Now as a follow up to my post and the answers I received:
The recipe I used came from the "Winemakers Recipe Handbook" not from the web as I stated in my original post. My goof up.
The recipe called for stripping the berries and placeing them in the primary, no cooking first.
Would it work to take the jug of wine and boil it and start all over with new yeast?  Would this remove the green goo?
AND THANK YOU ALL

[GrannieAnnie]

Don't worry about the goo. It will be fine. Before you transfer it off the lees next time just get out the goo that is on the surface. You'll be transferring it a couple times during the next months and you'll see you won't be troubled.

I made elderberry wine for the first time last year and made the mistake of letting some of the green berries get into it which caused the goo problem. But it all disappeared eventually.

From what I've read it is best to not leave the berry must in the primary for more than 2 or 3 days because it leaves behind too much tannin making a strong astringent taste. Also squeezing the bag is a no-no as I believe you wrote.

[puppy2]

I am still learning at this site. Have a question for GrannieAnnie.
You said you mix Grape wine with your Elderberry wine , do you do a half and half or how much each?

Also part of my learning is to understand some of the words you all use here. As an example "demijohn".  Here in Nebraska U.S.A. a john is some place we all have to go to when we "Have To Go" But I have figured out that you all mean it to be a glass jug, am I right? Please bare with me I am lrearning.

[puppy2]

Can't spell either   learning

[Tyke]

It's an old type of glass container/measurement. Usually with  narrow neck and 2 small handles at the top.

When i googled it, it seems that it is 1 gallon.

I remember hearing as a child that it was a measurement set up in the time of King John - not sure this is true though...

[Dadnlad]

We picked 3lb of elderberries today to follow CJ Berry's recipe, was asked the same question by my son, and had to concede I hadnt a clue what demi-john meant :-[
So we've Googled it tonight, and apparently 'demi-john' is an alteration of an old French term 'dame-jeanne' or 'lady-jane'
This perhaps infers [by the shape of the bottle] to the 'stoutness of figure' of the aforementioned lady ? ;D

[GrannieAnnie]

I am still learning at this site. Have a question for GrannieAnnie.
You said you mix Grape wine with your Elderberry wine , do you do a half and half or how much each?

Also part of my learning is to understand some of the words you all use here. As an example "demijohn".  Here in Nebraska U.S.A. a john is some place we all have to go to when we "Have To Go" But I have figured out that you all mean it to be a glass jug, am I right? Please bare with me I am lrearning.

I'm no expert but did read once that wine makers would add elderberry wine to grape wine to improve a bland flavor. It does add some complex notes to the taste and changes a fruit punch taste into something more elegant. I mixed it roughly 1 to 3 but you'd have to taste yours and decide. I don't care for the taste of straight elderberry wine.

[pg]

A tip picked from our wine club elderberry wine expert is to look for the round berries on the end of the bright red stems and not the ovoid shapd berries on the green stems.

Red-stemmed elderberries (and also their flowers if you use them in June) always seem to give better and tastier results.