Topic: Help-Filter advice

[Ishard]

Andy try this link its great for toothache

http://www.naturedirect2u.com/Essential%20oils/clove.htm

[Andy H]

Yeah i got oralgel and it contains cloves, put some on the gum and it is numb in seconds then you dribble and slur like you have been to the dentist ;D

[Andy H]

So bearing in mind elec consumption of pumps and UV etc can you recommend a good air pump?

Apart from the diaphram ones we have tried in the past we tried the piston type where the inventor retired and no one else makes them.

However, none of these worked at depth. lowered 3 ft down and they all slowed down dramatically.

Any ideas?

[Ishard]

I have a Hi-blow air pump, 8 line output and have had it for years. Its a great air pump!

Ive just looked this link and the designs have changed somewhat but the name is still there so they will be fine I'm sure. :)

http://www.koicarp.net/air_products/airpumps/hi_blow.html

That link also sells the Aquamax pumps I use for the water.

This is a good site to peruse at your leasure too.

Koi will eat just about anything and mine like yours eat brown bread etc.

They also love peas, edible flowers, lettuce, maggots, spiders, wood lice, segmented oranges, corned beef, any fresh water fish, prawns, worms, the little red worms you can find in the filters etc etc.
I suggest you try a little and see which your koi prefer.
Feed the koi then only leave the food in for 10 mins after that fish it out as they aint gonna eat it!

I do not feed high protein bought food unless I want to 'bring on' any particular koi. I generally use wheatgerm, low protein food until the koi stop eating for winter as its easier to keep water perams stable.

I do sometimes feed spirulina and then mix my own koi food but that is really only for top end koi as its mega expensive. Spirulina improves koi 'hi' (red)

BTW I had a bright idea to feed mine boiled rice, you know they are Japanese fish so hence the rice, Mine hated it and I had to fish it all out next day lol

Hope this helps

Jackie

[Andy H]

Put sponges and "cotton wool" fabric under it temporarily and flowcore in as thats all they had.  Water is clearer today, can see 4.5ft down to the drain.

Looks like a good website but will look more in morning as playing poker soon.

What do you use you air pump for? in the pond in a few places or in the filter as well?

What size for what pond and how deep does it pump.

I have always found they dont like depth/pressure and we have had diaphram and piston types in the past.

[Ishard]

Im glad your water is clearer. Keep going and we shall get it 'polished' yet. :)

I use the air filter for;

Goldfish pond, 1 line, 30 feet from pump and 3 foot deep.
Wildlife pond, 1 line, 20 feet from pump and 3 foot deep.
koi pond, 4 lines, about 2 feet from pump and 4.5 feet deep.

I leave 2 lines not connected because if I need the quarantine tank or hospital tank for anything I then have 2 lines spare.

I dont put an air line in the filters (generally) as the water flowing into them is O2 saturated, however I once took part in an experiment for suspended filter medium and then added 1 in the final filter chamber.

I often used to take part in experiments to help the koi hobby around the world.  ;)

Below is a link to one that Duncan did and I helped with.  :)

http://www.koiquest.co.uk/Telmin.htm

[Andy H]

Some good links on this and the other post, learning more and getting more confused!!!!
HAILEA
AIR COMPRESSOR
ACO-009E

Is this pump any good? Just trying to save money

Also looked at a 150mm ceramic airstone?

[Ishard]

I dont know that pump Andy so really cant comment on it except to say its output is better than the one I use.  :)

I know Ive given you loads of info very quickly and Im sorry that it has confused you (it did me loads when I started serious koi keeping) but absorb what you need and dont even try to understand the rest.

I have a BSC(hons) so science is my bag and I have been learning koi for over 20 years now and still dont know as much as a few others I could mention. Its a hobby that keeps you learning, which I love.

Get the cheapest air stones, it really doesnt matter as they often end up disconected and on the floor of the pond. My koi pull them off the line.

You are doing great.  :)

Basics are;
Get mega filters, if yours arent mega, add on.
Dont overstock.
Dont overfeed
Watch the water perams always, look after the water and it will look after your koi.
10% water change weekly (with dechlor) winter and summer

PS I could REALLY confuse you and start talking about koi health and the operations I have performed  ;) lol

[Andy H]

No problem about the info!

How many gals is your pond and what model of Hi Blow do you have, just to give me a good idea.

Reading on some sites about the downsides of cheap ebay and noisy piston types.

The old piston one we had years ago for indoors had a flywheel etc. worked great but no depth/psi capabilities.

[Andy H]

Any ideas on this lump on the fish and what make and model the black one is???

[Andy H]

was looking at above link and browsing at different things and got onto ozone gadgets and got excited at the benefits, Then I saw the price!!!!!!!!!! :o :o :o

Makes one wonder what the ultimate set up would cost to install and run?

[Ishard]

That wound on the bekko is an ulcer. It is caused when there is a slight hole/wound in the koi and the bacteria get into it.
Can you scrape and scope the ulcer with a microscope ? If not can you actually remember seeing it being hurt?
If not then assume its flukes causing it and use Telmin.
ONLY USE TELMIN IF YOU HAVE NO OTHER SPECIES IN THE POND JUST CARP

The ulcercan be treated but it requires you to anaesthetise the koi to clean and protect the wound. This will need to be done a few times.
Its quite a complicated procedure the first time you do it but you do get used to doing it and it becomes easier.
You will also need to inject with antibiotics, I can tell you how and where etc

If you wish to give it a go I can talk you through it, what you need, what you do etc.

The second fish from the angle you have taken the pic looks like a grass carp. These are generally friendly fish and can grow huge but are not easily seen in the water because of their colour.

There is no such thing as an ultimate pond as what constitutes the best this year isn't the best next year, but I know what you mean. lol
Mine isn't a special pond, it is unheated (sacrilege)  it hasn't got a bottom drain etc but it does have mega filters and healthy koi. ;)

Jackie

[Andy H]

Yeah grass carp is what we bought them as but you never know in some places!

If the ulcer goes un-checked what will happen, we have a few gold fish and 2 golden orfe and the 3 grass carp in the pond too.
We did take 3 to the vet a few years back, cost a lot and we were giving them tablets and iodine swabs but they all died in the end, the ulcer fish seems happy enough but does avoid colliding with other fish.

We never heat the pond either. we just stop feeding at 10c

So what amount of air do you reckon you have going into the koi pond and how many gals is it roughly so I can look at air pumps.

Is that pressure valve really recommended to save diaphrams?

I reckon a piston one would be too noisy from what I have read.

[Andy H]

on the subject of food(koi sticks)

how much daily would you feed say 25 koi plus a few others that are about 14-16" without head or tail??? A breakfast bowl full? or half that?

[Ishard]

If the ulcer goes unchecked the koi will die.
Koi are water bags swimming in water and all that stops the koi becoming water logged is the skin ( and healthy kidneys)

Once there is a wound in the skin bacteria make it larger and then the infection goes throughout the koi system (systemic infection). That this is happening is recognised by red coloured streaks going away from the ulcer, that's the infection spreading :(

Only you will recognise if the red I saw on the pic was infection streaks or thin koi skin showing the koi blood as you know your koi.

Water then gets into the koi's system by diffusion (water follows salt and the koi blood is saltier than the pond water) then the kidneys cant cope with getting rid of the water and so the koi develops dropsy and we see the pine cone effect. Koi looks very rounded with its scales sticking out.
It is not always recognisable as pine coning unless you have seen it before or look very closely.

You can draw out some of the water by putting the koi into a salt solution and upping the concentration of salt once every 3 days, however there is no point in doing this if you aren't going to heal the ulcer or the cause of it really.

I personally think that the ulcer has already started to eat the dorsal fin bone and its a major job to bring this koi back and requires lots of TLC and meds.

As a last resort;

How to put a koi to 'sleep' first knock it out with clove oil mixed in water ( I use MS222 but many hobbyists use clove oil) then bag it in a large bag of water and place in your freezer. Koi then go into topor and die.
I overdose with MS222 for mine. I had a lot of whats called tategoi for experimentation and when the experiment was over I could euthanize if needed. I usually gave them away though.  :)

BTW anti biotic tablets dont work with koi as you have already found out previously and I would never take my koi to the vet, any good vet will come out.
Actually my vet told me he will act as my chemist to supply me with any meds (done within the law as Im not a vet)  I need as I know more about koi than he does.  :)
Treating koi is a specialists job and most vets just dont know about them.

Feeding koi is easy. The rules are; feed as much as your filters can take without changing the water perams. 

Rather than feed a huge amount in one go (cos your permas will spike) feed little and often. I feed 4 times per day 3 handfuls of pellets. I wouldnt suggest you feed that amount as you already have water problems.

In other words, koi will eat as much as ever you can feed them (knickname for koi is 'pond pigs') but its your water perams that will go wacko when you over feed.

Hope this helps

Jackie

[Andy H]

Thanks for that Jackie

I will get some clove oil I think, sad but these things happen.

How much oil in a bucket?

Where do you get Dechlor? (and don`t say all good retail outlets!!!!!) ;D

Do you know anything about the amount of air to put in a pond and any experiences of piston types or diaphram, we have had piston/flywheel type and diapham but only indoors before but worried about bits I have read about the noise of pistons!

wonder which are lowest wattage per air output of the 2 types?

Anyone know out there........?

[Ishard]

Andy it doesnt matter if you over dose the clove oil so shove it all in and aggitate the water well as to mix it. Clove oil usually comes in a small bottle.

Buy your dechlor from a swimming pool chemical guy, its much cheaper than an outlet just for koi or a pet shop.
I got mine from a friend (Duncan) and its enough to dechlor the north sea if needed so I have never needed to buy any.

Unfortunatly my husband is working in Scotland and he is the engineer at home so he would know about pumps and O2 ratios more than I do. But Ill try and find out for you.
I do know the optimum O2 to water ratio is 6mg per litre.
BTW you cant actually add too much O2.

Jackie

[Andy H]

ok thanks, thats interesting as one fish site said you can never have too much air in the water!!!

I will try and find out what is best amount.
From reading I think I have been put off piston type air pumps...

[Ishard]

Andy Ive done a bit of phoning around for you and Secoh pumps seem to be a reliable pump with good output and low wattage and are not too expensive.


http://www.koicarp.net/air_products/airpumps/secoh.html

This link explains a lot but you may be able the get the pumps cheaper elsewhere such as E bay.

Hope this helps

Jackie

[Andy H]

Thanks for that, really appreciated.

I have wandered round that link and found a few dead ends(pages not found)

I have emailed them to help me make a decision.

I have used air stones but what it the diff between air stones diffusers and bottom drain difusers??? Anyone use the diff ones???

What food does everyone use and how serious a koi keeper are you?

Would be great to get lots of replies as to different bits used on peoples ponds.