Topic: Catastrophic Potato Problem

[Need a Leek]

I have just been having a nose on the safety data sheet regarding Aminopyralid...Dow site, which I am unable to give you the link as when it comes to computers I seem to consume a great deal of thick pills.

Google " Aminopyralid safety data sheet" and click on the FAQ result at the top... I am a tadge confused now as I am sure they state that brassicas are OK to drill after 4 months of what I will call CONTAMINATION.

What do you think?.

This is doing my swede in ???.

I am going to pull a ring pull of hops now :).

Cheers
Tony

[froglets]

Thanks for the reply Ceres, will post back after speaking to the stables this weekend.

[martinstanley]

Dow have been very helpful

Well, they would, wouldn't they? (Those of a certain age will recognise the quote!) They have been been economical with the truth and are scared sh** ri*** about it coming out!
[/quote]

Whilst I am no supporter of companies making pesticides, I do not see it as their fault but rather the farmer/contractor who is unable to read the instructions and advice on the tin.  If they followed the instructions which are (and I paraphrase) 'don't put resultant manure on crops, don't use as mulch or compost' this would not be happening.

[ceres]

Whilst I am no supporter of companies making pesticides, I do not see it as their fault but rather the farmer/contractor who is unable to read the instructions and advice on the tin.  If they followed the instructions which are (and I paraphrase) 'don't put resultant manure on crops, don't use as mulch or compost' this would not be happening.

In a large number (possibly the majority) of cases, this problem is not due to a farmer or contractor failing to observe the product instructions.  If a farmer sprays his crop or pasture and then feeds his animals on it, then sure he is culpable if he then gives/sells that manure to an allotment or gardener.  But I suggest this is a minority of cases.

However, the reality is that the sprayed material goes through several links in a supply chain before it gets to the gardener in the form of manure.  Farmers spray their crops which are then sold on for animal feed or bedding to a processor, wholesaler, feed merchant, stables .................. etc.  The farmer has no idea and could not reasonably be expected to know that the sprayed material was going to be used by gardeners.

The fault lies with the bureaucrats who framed the regulations for this product.  They failed to take account of the secondary market (i.e. gardeners) for manure and the complexity of the supply chain that gets it to the gardeners.  The supply chain is unpoliceable and the regulations are unenforceable.

I can only see 2 possibilities to fix this.  One is that the product is withdrawn from the market and we all continue using manure as we always have.  The second is that this product stays on the market and the use of manure by amateur gardeners is stopped by law.

[Robert_Brenchley]

How on earth would they enforce that? I don't see it happening, but loads of chemicals have been withdrawn before.

[dylanplant]

Hello all!

I've just tuned in to this link after a response to my question on the BBC board. We have this problem too :( We're in Lincolnshire (I can't remember if a Lincs case has made it into the previous 7 pages sorry - a lot to digest!) and I know at least we and a small-scale farmer about 3 fields back have the same problem, though his is a milder scale.

The thing is we both have horses and we at least (I'd be shocked if he didn't) use our own manure. We also use our own hay and he makes and uses his own straw as well. We don't stable our horses so straw isn't relavent. The most recent time our fields were sprayed is about 3 years ago at least, for thistles by the hay-maker, and I would be VERY concerned if my horses had eaten something as potent as this seems in their hay.

So I would say we have no recent spraying, no straw, and only the horsemuck we've been using in the same way for years (two of our horses are very old!!). I'd be surprised if the farmer sprays too. So I'd like to re-introduce the potential for airborne issues - I know the farmer between the two of us sprays his arable fields at least, so perhaps he's the source for within our manure. The farmer with the issue does also have some curling leaves on the elders in a hedge (certainly unmanured), which is suffering on the side which faces the spraying farmer's field and not the other.... this is speculation though.  What do you think?

[ceres]

Hi dylan, sorry to hear you're affected too.  You'll have to forgive me, I don't know much about keeping horses!  Are you saying that there is nothing your horses have eaten or been bedded on that you did not produce yourself and you therefore believe to be unsprayed except three years ago?  No bought in feed of any kind?

When you manured the crops that have been affected, did you use new/recent  manure or was it the 3 year old stuff.

Does your haymaker have a record of what he sprayed with 3 years ago?

What is the farmer in between you spraying with?

Sorry. lots of questions!

I wouldn't be too worried about your horses.  If your contamination is from aminopyralid, the quantities in the plant material are minute and they pass straight through the gut of mammals, according to the experts. 

[Eristic]

this is speculation though.  What do you think?

I think you are a plant.

The poison is aminopyralid, it is in the manure, it gets into the manure via contaminated hay.

Listen to the reasoning and research of a very dedicated and thourough team, some of whom have been on this case for 2 years.

[Andy H]

Eristic: explain more please...

[dylanplant]

Ceres - good questions :) yes, we have realised that the hay we were feeding for the manure we used this year was indeed from the sprayed hay :( which stops my confusion but doesn't heal my plants! Still, we are going to follow the tips listed earlier and try to have a good year next year.. feels like we say that a lot!

Thank you for your reassurance about our horses - it's not nice to think they've had to eat what's so clearly harming the plants, but as the experts say they're fine i'm not going to worry.

Eristic, I am not a plant; I grow them. And I had read and accepted all the comments and expert info, I just hadn't managed to link as to how it had happened to our manure, sorry for being confused, the brain's back in gear now, think it got a bit overwhelmed by all the new information!

Good luck everyone, hope your soils recover!

[PurpleHeather]

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Aminopyralid/

Perhaps you would like to add your signature to this petition

[skintnbitter]

Signed it!

[Trevor_D]

And me!

[tonybloke]

Ditto! ;)

[posie]

Me too.  :)

[Need a Leek]

I am wearing a police uniform and banging on door No10...I hope I have got the right street.  ;D

Cheers
Tony

[asbean]

And me  ;D ;D

[PurpleHeather]

I have been telling a lot of people about this.

Several have said that the problem is,  people are not digging in their manure properly. Or not letting rot properly. As though it is the gardener who is at fault.

[Dadnlad]

Yep, us too  :)

[Need a Leek]

I have been telling a lot of people about this.

Several have said that the problem is,  people are not digging in their manure properly. Or not letting rot properly. As though it is the gardener who is at fault.

Well the so said several should have a so said read on this site, online and in the local paper in their area...Dr. Gardener Who....Where are you????.

Cheers
Tony