Topic: Catastrophic Potato Problem

[Need a Leek]

The more people get to hear about it, the more will come forward and then it might get noticed in high places.

Glad to hear it was picked up on Midlands radio.  The word is definitely spreading.

I've been invited on to BBC Southern Counties radio next Tuesday at 10am to talk about it with a lady from RHS Wisley and another affected grower.

Good luck on the radio tomorrow Ceres, I and many lottie holders and gardeners will be listening from my neck off the woods. I did email some pictures today to the station of my affected pots...If you are out of signal shot ladies and gents you can listen live online on the BBC Southern Counties website.

Cheers
Tony

[ceres]

Thanks Tony!  Good idea to send the pictures in.  If I get a chance I'll mention you to Gordon Astley.   

[Trevor_D]

It's in "Amateur Gardening" this morning - full page news item.

[ceres]

That's great Trevor!  Now we just need someone to sit up and take notice.

BTW, the correct version of GQT is now on iPlayer - it has the discussion from Sunday about manure about 2 minutes into the programme.

Off to the BBC studio now!

[froglets]

Hi Ceres,

I posted last week about those of us who had stable manure being ok ......  Spoke too soon.   The two beds we manured in May from out usual stables are now contaminated.

There are pictures of our potato and bean bed posted here. 

http://www.allotment.org.uk/garden-diary/261/contaminated-manure-aminopyralid-update/

The leeks, fennel, pumpkins and cabbages are ok, but of course we are worried about eating them now.  The manure from Jan/Feb is fine, so it's only arrived in the stock recently.  I can't believe the irony of me being insistent on growing by non chemical means & I end up with chemically contaminated crops through using manure.  I will be passing the stables on Wednesday so I will drop in and explain what is going on in case they don't already know & ask that they explain to peple coming in for manure.  I presume this will affect garden flowers etc as well that are related to the affected veg.

We have other potatoes, but those are all the beans from the A4A bean swap which I was really looking forward to.

Dang!

[Andy H]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/index.shtml

Think this is the link which starts about 9 mins past ten am this morning
Click on Local radio stations then southern counties then gordon astley
this broadcast starts at ten so advance by 5 mins then wait a few.

[Andy H]

RHS link

http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles0708/Weedkiller-manure.asp

[ceres]

Soory froglets, I just posted a long reply to you with a photo and it was bounced for being too big but instead of letting me edit it, it just disappeared.  What a stupid system.  I'll try to re-post later when I'm less annoyed!

[Need a Leek]

Well I guess that's it for this year for the Need a Leek family as my question regarding the thriving crops next to the affected pots on our two lotties was answered this morning, I am not taking any chances with my family's health so it is out with the fork over the next day or two and a burn up when it has all dried up...GUTTED AND THAT'S WHAT YOU CALL WASTING GOOD FOOD  Gordon Brown >:(.

Cheers
Tony

[Andy H]

I have used LOTS of manure from about 5 diff places so I hope we dont get affected.

Wonder if its ok to compost the affected plants???

[ninnyscrops]

Well having listened to the radio programme that's the last time I import manure for a while :o and will have to rely on compost bins to do the biz.

Perhaps not all of us are self-sufficient on our plot but it begs the question now of buying local organic produce too! The programme mentions that even if some crops look OK, ie brassicas that have been grown in soil that has been contaminated, not to eat them!

So where do we go from here?

[Andy H]

Although it did say that 7 days after spraying the animals could eat it and also it is leached out after a year.

I will blanch and freeze stuff until I learn more unless the plants look bad.

If they look normal I will save.

B***** pesticides.

But dont take my thoughts for your own. be safe as you think is right.

My current heap has much grass and manure layers but I will go to the stables and ask them what they have used.

[ceres]

Going to post messages in a row - I know, bad etiquette - but I can't figure out how to get round the too large post problem.

I had a long chat with the RHS lady today and got 2 interesting fact-ettes.  I had been contemplating getting a manure sample tested with the possibility in mind of issuing a claim in the Small Claims Track of the County Court against our manure supplier.  But it seems that testing is a waste of time and money.  The quantity of aminopyralid present in the manure is so infinitesimally miniscule that testing is not conclusive.

And apparently, in mammals, aminopyralid goes straight through the digestive system - what goes in one end is pretty much what comes out the other.  It doesn't hang around.

As far as safety is concerned, I was in the studio with the RHS expert and she made quite an effort to correct the 'scaremongering' that was going on.  There isn't going to be a categoric 'yes, it's safe' or 'no, it's not' from anyone.  The lawyers wouldn't let them.  All there is, is the test data that suggests the risk to human health is very very small.  So it has to be a personal decision whether you eat your crops, if you actually get any.  It was a non-decision for me as, by the time the problem showed up, I had been eating my rhubarb from the beginning of the season after it had spent the winter under a thick mulch of toxic waste.  I am eating the fruit and veg - that's my own decision.  I might feel differently if I was feeding children.

Ninnyscrops, if you are concerned about eating the produce, it's probably prudent to assume that anything that has been planted in the contaminated manure has been affected whether they show the typical distorted growth or not.  My observation on my own plot is that so-called 'non-sensitive' crops experience a growth check and go through a stage of looking sickly but then seem to recover, but they have been exposed to it.

Tony, so sorry!  You're absolutely right.  This is one waste of food that isn't down to the consumer.  It's down to the bureaucrats who licensed this stuff and didn't allow for the fact that amateur gardeners have been using manure since the year oatcake and that the supply chain that gets the manure to us is in most cases complex and untraceable.

Andy, thanks for the links.  I think I'm going to ask the bods at the PSD about composting affected plants.

[Need a Leek]

I may leave two or three of each crop in just to see how they turn out...Still ain't going to have a munch on them though.

Thanks by the way Nin's re your pm :).

Cheers
Tony

[ceres]

Froglets, I'm so sorry - I know exactly how you feel.  Every time I go the the plot I see some new damage coming through.  Today it looks like the aubies are next.  If it makes you feel any better, here is a pic of my runners today:

[attachment=1]

I think your stables must stop selling/giving manure to growers once they know it's contaminated - I believe they're committing an offence if they carry on.  The only permitted disposal route is to spread it on grass or pastureland.

According to the RHS, ornamentals are affected too and not just things related to the sensitive veg crops.  It seems there is a set of sensitive ornamentals too (compositae?).

Sorry about your beans.  Maybe the nice A4A'ers will give you some for next year?

(Had to post this without the pic - too tired to try to figure out how to get it down to the right size.)

[Andy H]

Thanks Ceres

Let us know what you find out. I built a 6ft by 6ft by 5ft high compost heap and have been putting loads of manure, straw, grass and all the other stuff in it just to get loads to fill the on-going building of raised beds. I couldnt tell where the manure came from from what I have "used" so far but nothing out of the ordinary happening on the plot so far, touch wood.
 Have already eaten broad beans grown in a raised bed from the heap.

Trouble is with these un-known mixes of stuff is that they may be immediate or affect you in 40 years time.

There is a lot of crap we have eaten and breathed in over the years that will never be proven either way.

How many products are good for us then a few years later are bad for us!

This is quite a scary case though, and although I dont want to waste the results of healthy looking plants, I will be patient in the eating whilst waiting for results.

going to bed now, will put a poster up at the allotment for people to be cautious for those that haven`t heard or dont use internet.

Night all.

[Need a Leek]

Many thanks regarding your heart felt input on this issue Ceres...A huge thumbs up from the Middle Road site lottie holders in Shoreham-by-Sea, West Sussex.

Cheers
Tony

[martinstanley]

I have established that my supplier sprayed his fields three years ago with a forerunner of the products mention on the Dow web site called Pastor which contains clopyralid a forerunner of aminopyralid.  It has stayed in a heap for three years and we reckon we got the bottom of the heap which may explain why some who bought from the same supplier did not have quite such a devastating experience. 

Dow have been very helpful and provided me with the Directions for Use of both Forefront and Pastor which clearly state that manure from cattle grazing on sprayed meadows, or silage, or hay should not be used on susceptible crops eg peas, beans, potatoes etc or used for composting or mulching. It is some members of the farming community that are being irresponsible for not reading the tin.

I have asked the Food Standards Agency about risks to public health, ie in beef and milk, and told it is minimal which in my book conflicts with the advice from Dow not to eat the produce from manured areas.  I have had a meeting with my MP and placed the facts before him to ask further questions.

[Trevor_D]

 I have had a meeting with my MP and placed the facts before him to ask further questions.

Good for you. The more of us who do that the better. My MP - Nick Hurd, are you listening - hasn't even bothered to acknowledge my two e-mails!

Dow have been very helpful

Well, they would, wouldn't they? (Those of a certain age will recognise the quote!) They have been been economical with the truth and are scared sh** ri*** about it coming out!

[monro]

Hi do you know if this stuff has been band if not why not i muck my spuds heavily had a good crop no signs of trouble but sill worried :(