Topic: Rotovate or dig, dig or rotovate

[kt.]

I was considering getting a cultivator. My soil is decent enough and turns well with a gripe or spade. Digging by hand can be fun and I do enjoy it, but then there are times when I want to get it done ASAP. I also think that by having to dig less I would get more in the ground.

Any points for and against please

[manicscousers]

has anyone heard of rotovating causing "tiller pan" or is it just a myth.. ???

[kt.]

has anyone heard of rotovating causing "tiller pan" or is it just a myth.. ???

Just googled it and came back with not found. Any opinion on to dig or rotovate? ::)

[SMP1704]

has anyone heard of rotovating causing "tiller pan" or is it just a myth.. ???

I have manics, but I think that can happen with hand digging as well, which is why diggers advocate double digging and why no-diggers say their method works best ;D ;D

[Eristic]

I'm inclined to say that tiller pan is a bit of a myth, it is there but is in reality just the end of the dug soil on top of the undug. The problems with the rotovator are that first, you can frequently  see this layer because the machine throws the soil back, and second, these machines fail miserably in their attempt to dig deep. Due to their nature of fluffing up the soil, they do tend to fool the user into thinking that it has done a good job.

To dig or rotovate?
Given the time of the year, I would say dig as there is still between 2 and 5 months to go before crops have to be planted or sown. The ground is tending to be far too wet for a machine and digging does a far better job. The machine is best used prior to seed sowing to break up the clods to assist with achieving a nice tilth. I'm hoping to finish digging my new plot today and will try to get photos to show what can be achieved with a spade.

Someone on another thread mentioned that farmers don't dig, they use machines. While this is undeniably true, they do not use rotovators, they use the plough. Modern ploughs are very different beasts from those of 5000 years ago yet still they perform the exact same action on the soil that has proved best. A spade mimics the action of a plough in its proper use and is extremely efficient when used correctly. I have tried to cover this on my website  http://www.david-frary.com/Plot/primary_cultivation.html

[Fork]

"Tiller Pan" is caused by continual rotovating at the same depth over the years.

I cant remember where I read about it but it was in a reputable garden know how book

[windygale]

hi KTLawson, you can use a rotavator in conjunction with the normal tools, spade and fork, if you do the crop rotation thingy, (not growing the same plants in the same place every year) ie rotavate any empty ground on your plot first, a couple of time through out the winter, when the soil is dryish, then in spring double dig your areas when you plant your potatoes + rootcrops, beans, peas, etc - legumes, for a deep root runs, (you can add some well rotted manure aswell but not where you sow your carrots or parsnips as they will fork) and the other two areas in the crop rotation which has been rotavated will be good and firm for brassica and others ie lettuce, sweetcorn, etc, etc

hardpans can be made by ploughing and rotavating at the same depth and at the same direction for years , we used these machine a lot to make different texture and soil structures for crops to grow in, as in corn needs a well drained soil structure, were as kale and root crops (swedes, turnips all for cattle and sheep feed) need firm soil structure, we had to use a ridged tine cultivator at around three feet deep to break up the hard ground, we did this after hay making and when the corn was cut, for new drilling of grain, at 90deg to each pass

the biggest problem with rotavating is that it makes more weeds, but when you dig you can remove any bad weeds by hand (long and a hard job but you clean the soil better)  ::) ::) so look over your plot first before using these machines

[Busby]

Any machine that relies upon smell and noise to do a simple job just can't belong to an allotment whose aim is to be a place of relaxation and pleasure.

It doesn't take very long to turn over a bed and the exercise will prevent you having to go to a doctor because of your 'bad back'.

[Fork]

Any machine that relies upon smell and noise to do a simple job just can't belong to an allotment whose aim is to be a place of relaxation and pleasure.

It doesn't take very long to turn over a bed and the exercise will prevent you having to go to a doctor because of your 'bad back'.

It may not take long to turnover a bed and my plot gets "winter dug" every year...but it will be rotovated in the spring to make it easier for me to start planting out.

If I want to relax I will go to the beach somewhere!

[Froglegs]

Think of all them worms poor you liquidize when you rotovate :(.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I've heard about this as well, but I suspect it's just the compacted subsoil at the bottom of the cultivated layer. A pan properly so-called is due to a seasonally high water table, with salts being deposited at the top of the saturated layer, cementing soil particles together. It's hard to see that being caused by rotavation.

[stig]

winter dig to feed the birds ive a pet robin who follows me everywhere let the frost in to kill allgerms then again in spring

[SMP1704]

KT

Just read your initial post a bit more closely.  Your plot is already cultivated, so when you say rotovate do you mean a tilling action to break up the surface and/or incorporate organic matter?

With limited experience, I don't think that would cause problems and as you say it is to speed up cultivation rather than replacing hand digging.

On that basis you may not need a really chunky rotavator that costs £££ and takes up loads of space, perhaps a Mantis would fit the bill.

No, I'm not on commission, I just think mine is brill ;D

[kt.]

KT

Just read your initial post a bit more closely.  Your plot is already cultivated, so when you say rotovate do you mean a tilling action to break up the surface and/or incorporate organic matter?

Yes. My plot is already cultivated, it breaks down well when I turn it with a spade so I would say the soil is good. It is purely to save time. I have never had a cultivator so types & brands are new to me though most people on here mention Mantis Tillier. It prices around £280 (If I am looking at the right one)

[Eristic]

As promised here is a couple of pics of my new plot. Sorry they are foggy but its a weather thing.



And if no one else sticks a flag on it I might just claim another 3 or 4 pole. Got to get rid of the slugs somehow.

[BAK]

How long did it take to get to this stage Eristic? What size area is it (without the additional 3-4 poles that you have your eye on)?

Is this where the polytunnel is going, assuming that Santa can get it down the chimney?

[Eristic]

The plot is about 5 pole size and still needs a bit of tidying up near the paths and fence but is a nice useful plot. Work started at end of April to clear space for my HQ (tea hut) and progressed in stages through the year. Appalling weather has hindered progress as I had to have a bonfire every 4-5 yards of the length and much of the time it was just too wet.



This is a very good example of a situation where rotovators are absolutely no use whatsoever. They would break and fail to get anything useful done. Larger plant would strip the topsoil which mixed with the fire ash and all the natural compost, appears to be good quality. The actual digging of the plot did not take a great deal of time but there were long periods between strips.

My squashes were all grown at the HQ end so I've had a crop already, and shallots, spring onions and winter peas planted and growing.


Polytunnel was going to be placed on this plot but I've decided it will be better use of space if it goes on the adjacent strip.