Author Topic: When is a pond not a pond? (Read 19452 times)

Anthony · « **on:** February 04, 2004, 22:09:58 »

When it becomes an obsession!!

With Christmas out of the way and with the back end of January scheduled to be very wet even by Manchester's standards I decided that it was about time that I fixed the, long over due and much talked about overflow system into my pond. A close family friend agreed to help (mainly because of the cans of Boddington's bitter and the extra portion of turkey I had supplied him with on Christmas day! ;)

A number of different ideas were discussed in the planning office (The kitchen table) from a simple pipe which would take excess water from the pond and drip it onto the flags (my idea) to the "all singing all dancing" system which would remove the excess water through a series of pipes positioned underground to be collected in a big green plastic bin. From there the water could be transferred into the Water Butt to be re-used when the pond became lower in the hot summer months!! (Bob's idea) He was a plumber by trade and as such who was I to argue with him and hence the all singing all dancing plan got the nod.

After several hours of drilling, fixing and cementing it was finally finished. Right on cue it began to rain and with a couple of buckets of water thrown in for good measure, and to speed the process up, the overflow finally began dripping it's precious droplets of heavy metal free pond water into the plastic bin. (small things amuse small minds, I know what your all thinking :) At that very moment the soon to be wife (aug04) appeared in the doorway and uttered those fateful words no self confessed pond obsessed owner wants to hear..."Is that it then, nothing more to be done on the pond!?!" I'd hardly began my reply of "I still think it needs to be a bit deeper" when I saw her face turn to a look of anger and instead I just replied "Yes"!!

Two weeks, about 30 inches of rainfall, and a broken leg (football), later on and I guess my "ponding" will have to be done only in an observational capacity :(

I'll be back though!

Last thing - How deep do I need to be to be able to keep Koi?

thx

Anthony

Margaret · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2004, 13:04:45 »

Hi Anthony! Good to hear from you.Don't let partners put you off your obseession.Ponds are like that,once built they demand attention and sometimes partners are bound to get a little jealous.take no notice.I never did,and now he knows better.When I say"i need help" it is freely given otherwise nagging will follow,so I win in the end!! :D :D

Anyway,sounds like you have had fun. I too have a plumber to sort out my overflow probs.Comes in the shape of one hubby,one bucket,and one wet coat and pair of shoes ;D ;D

Serious matters.If you really want to keep Koi,don't forget they will eat every plant you put in,need mega filtration and a depth of 4' at least.They will bully other fish and be more pushy than the Orfe.hence I don't have any.Others opinions may differ of course.I suppose ok when small,but just remember how big they grow!!

Best of luck!!

teresa · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2004, 15:16:37 »

Hi Anthony

any water feature be it pool or pond is an ongoing prodject think Margaret will agree.
All I can add to our margarets advice is plants Koi dont like oh I hear you say this is what I have found out in the last few years of hubby keeping koi.
Yes margaret they are hubbys he says to everybody come and see my koi. But I do the feeding treatments all the reading ask the question and worry endless about them. Partners who would have them hee hee.
Ok Plants ours dont like:

Marsh marigolds
water forgetmenots
Mint as a margenal they had a nibble and left it alone
I have a pink multi flower height about 5-6 feet dont know what it is forgotten if you would like a photo will post it is in the deep end and beautiful.

this year I had trailing begonias on the edge trailing into the water not a nibble.
trailing ivy on the edge no nibble
water chesnuts think that was what they called them they were ok

they loved my water lilies they had all three
water cress they loved that as well

I bought a bullrush last year it was young so ended up in a bucket this year might put it in the pool

Most of my or our fish are koi I do have two shubkins which get on fine with the koi but all about the same age except baby the big one who has a lovely loving nature to the young ones.

Anthony · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2004, 16:57:45 »

Thanks for the replies, its good to be back. I was only planning on keeping a couple of very small Koi but if I do I'll certainly have a look around to see if I can pick up any of the plants suggested.

The method in my madness for wanting to keep just a few is two reasons: 1) Whenever I talk to people and I mention my pond, the first question they always ask is "Do you have Koi" after replying "No" people's interest generally dissapears despite my best efforts to tell them of all the other wonderfull fish species I have. This way and by answering "Yes" I may well encourage more questions and interest. 2) Whenever I've brokered the subject of deepening with the better half she always says it's plenty big enough for the fish we have. I thought by introducing a couple of Koi which I believe can grow quite large over time then I'll force her hand and make her give me the go-ahead for something bigger :)

The games I have to play to get anything I want!!!

Anthony

Muddy_Boots · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2004, 18:06:16 »

With strategy like that, you must have been communing with your feminine side, Anthony ;D ;D ;D

teresa · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2004, 01:32:56 »

Anthony

That is so cute but a tip do what hubby did to me I got to choose which ones I wanted.
Also if your buying young ones like 5 for xpounds get them in the spring when the water is warmed up this gives them the summer autum to put on weight before winter ps dont buy fry.
Unfortuanly they dont all survive. Saying that my baby has survived everything the move and a tree that hubby chopped down landed on the bath ( Temp home) it was 15 ft conifer.
Even other fish bought in with fungus that is why I love him soooo much. But he is the main one that eats everything I have seen him doing it.

Anthony · « **Reply #6 on:** February 07, 2004, 16:03:44 »

Feminine side!!! Since breaking my leg playing football two weeks ago the ball and chain has been responsible for doing the cooking at chez Anthony - It wouldn't have been so bad but for the fact that I spent most of the first week trying to explain to her where the kitchen was in our house :)

Are there are a particular type of Koi that will stand a better chance of surviving than others e.g. Ghost Koi? What else will I need to look for when purchasing the said fish? I think I'll probably only get a couple in the middle to end of March!

Anthony

teresa · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2004, 01:12:45 »

If your going to impress friends go for the highly coloured Koi this way you can see them in the water.
A water testing kit is a must get the water right before they go in.

Somewhere for them to hide if they feel threatened a large pipe at the bottom of the pool etc.

Lots of oxygen plants so they can eat them this has the advantage of given them a tonic like us eating greens. As well as a good quality food you can get the growing pellets for young fish.Cheep cr*p is not worth it.

Read up as much as you can some good sites on the web

Muddy_Boots · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2004, 13:59:24 »

Whoops! Sounds like fishy tale to me ;D. Was first question, 'what's a kitchen?'!

Sympathy re leg, hope you are not starving! :) ;D :)

Anthony · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2004, 15:29:19 »

She's not that bad - although after the numerous pans we've had to throw away I try and avoid any contact she has with potatoes :)

When would be the best time to buy Koi? I was thinking of probably the middle to end of April which would coincide nicely with when my plaster is due to come off :( - Also when the new arrivals do eventually turn up I'll have to do some rejigging of what type of fish is kept in each section - I currently have: (5 g-orfe, 2 tench, 6 goldies, 2 shubs, and 3 comets) At present all bar the Orfe are in the top section which is the deepest part - The Orfe live in the bottom which is biggest by volume of water but not as deep as the top. Assuming I get just a couple of Koi - which type of fish are they most likely to get on with best? I was intending on trying to keep same/similar species together if possible (on the off-chance they may produce fry ;D

And finally the pond holds approx 1600 litres of water, is this enough to sustain 20 small fish? How many do you guys have and in what size ponds?

thanks & apologies for all the questions.

Anthony

Margaret · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2004, 22:16:41 »

Tony,far be it from me to stop you from trying out new ideas,and your enthusiasm is to be commended,but I feel you have not thought about how big all your fish are going to grow.How deep are your 2 ponds? Orfe need depth as well as a lot of space to swim.Koi need about 4 ft if they are to be happy and grow to their full potential.Tench too can grow big.At least make sure your filter is well matured and running efficiently before you get any more fish.And finally,fish do not need to be very big before they start breeding:then you will find very quickly that you need a lot of space!!

1600 litres is not a lot of water really for the number of potentially large fish you have.
My largest pond holds 5,400 litres and I feel that I would even now like to give my fast and very active 3 orfe,more room.I would not dream of putting them in my smaller pond,and that holds 3,600 litres.Mind you,they are nearly 18 ins long. Yours may be small now,but they grow VERY quick!!

Anthony · « **Reply #11 on:** February 12, 2004, 12:00:17 »

I don't know Margaret, you always bring me back down to earth with a bump :( But I know you are only concerned about the well being of the fish which is fair enough :) I guess my intension was to get quite a few smaller fish for now and as time goes by and as they get progressively bigger then I could increase the size of the pond to accomodate them as you have done.

I think therefore I'll shelve the plans for the Koi for the time being and concentrate on keeping the ones I do have fit and well and ready for when I can either a) persuade the Mrs to let me extend or b) She goes on holiday for a few days. (Whichever happens soonest!)

Did you say that your Orfe are 9 years old?

Thanks

Anthony

Margaret · « **Reply #12 on:** February 12, 2004, 22:52:42 »

Hi Anthony.After the troubles you had last year I think you are very wise to concentrate on getting conditions right for the fish you do have this year.Then they will be breeding before you know it and you will be glad you did not buy any more!

It would be nice if you could expand the ponds before you need to,but I gather you are up against opposition! .I went through the same problem and it was difficult putting all the fish in one pond while I had another one built.I very nearly lost one orfe through it.

My Orfe are coming up to 14 years old now,Anthony and are absolutely beautiful,graceful creatures.When you have 5 the size of mine you will want a lake.!!I am only glad mine have never bred!

Anthony · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2004, 16:02:27 »

14 years is some achievement, with the mortality rate in my pond at the moment I'd settle for 14 months :(

Following on from that I did notice yet another Shub with what looked like that all familiar circular type sore on his side a couple of days ago. He's one of the original 4 we bought last May and so as an ever present I will be quite sad if we lose him.

I immediately pulled him out of the pond and put him in the newly acquired tank which I had bought specifically for an invent such as this. The tank holds about 10 litres and I have put aqarium gravel on the bottom. I've put the required dose of "Tetra Medifin" in with him and was wondering If I needed to do anything else e.g. feed him/ change water etc. Are there any remedies that can be recommended that specifically target these sores which by my reckoning have accounted for the majority of the fatalities?

Also the tank is in our utility room which is slightly colder than the rest of the house. Is this the best place to keep him for the time being?

thanks

Tony

teresa · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2004, 16:56:16 »

Hi Anthony
try this site untill Margaret comes to the rescue.

http://www.ask.co.uk/ix.asp?q=Infections+In+Goldfish&ac=WELL&xx=0&qid=CEA8C164B84C114A87BBEAED885BE826&p=1&s=200&sp=ix&fn=tuk&b=0&fo=2&r=10&io=4&fp=4&fr=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Efishdoc%2Eco%2Euk%2Fdisease%2Fulcers%2Ehtm&adurl=

Margaret · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2004, 18:47:29 »

Hi Tony.There are generally 2 reasons for these sores keeping on reappearing.Firstly, the injury itself that causes the scales to be removed,and secondly,the bacteria sets in and causes ulceration;a horrible way for the poor fish to suffer and die,and very difficult to treat.It could be something rough edged in the water as I have suggested before.The only time I get damaged fish is at spawning time if they pick on one particular fish and give her a hard time.That is obviously not the case here.After the long cold winter with no food fish are weakened and have little resistance to bacteria.It could be your water quality is also not the best it could be.

As for treating it,is the medifin for tanks or ponds?the treatment for ponds is no t up to much,so make sure you have the right one.Do not feed it,and if you can get a tank heater and warm up the water to about 20 degrees you may be able to save it.You will not need to change the water if you are not feeding;in any case fish will not eat when unwell.You should have an air pump in too,as the fish will need increased oxygen when there is medication in the tank.

I have saved one or two fish like this,but if the ulceration gets worse it would be kinder to destroy it.

Sorry to go on ,but I know when you are desperate,it is best to have all the help you can.been there,got the teeshirt!! Good luck!!

Anthony · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2004, 12:07:05 »

Thanks, both replies have been very useful. Unfortunately the Medifin I have is for ponds and so I guess when I get chance i.e. leg permitting, I'll get some better medication. Does anyone have the address of a good on-line supplier?

Thanks

Tony

teresa · « **Reply #17 on:** February 20, 2004, 12:43:11 »

Hi Tony
Try this site may have links to what you need

http://www.koikeeping.com/links.htm

Most of my links are Koi related but fish health is the same I think for all fish.
Hope you enjoy

Anthony · « **Reply #18 on:** February 24, 2004, 15:37:01 »

Thanks for the link Teresa I've managed to order a treatment which specifically targets ulcers/bacterial sores and am expecting this in the post any day.

The shub that was ill is still in a bad way but I'm hoping that when the new stuff arrives it might perk him up a bit - if not then I guess I'll have to "re-asses the situation" :( Might it be worth offering him a bit of food now as he's been in there a week.

Not sure what I'll do with the tank when the current situation comes to an end one way or another.

once again thanks for all the help.

Tony

Andy H · « **Reply #19 on:** June 24, 2009, 18:44:22 »

We have massive grass carp! Bought as tiddlers about 15 yrs ago now about 30"
2 orfe have just been moved to another home they were about 15yrs old too, need to re-home 2 big ghost carp too as we are way over stocked.

Just reading that koi like 6ft deep water to excercise muscles that they don`t use when swimming normally!

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Author Topic: When is a pond not a pond? (Read 19452 times)